Realtor Digital Marketing: Mastering Your Online Presence

Mike Mills

(0:12) Well, hello, hello out there to all you digital dynamos. (0:17) Did you know that a staggering 97% of homebuyers start their home search online? (0:23) But 68% of those folks find their real estate agent through referrals from friends, family and past experiences.

(0:30) However, after getting the referral, 88% of homebuyers look up that agent online to find out more information. (0:37) So if someone were to look you up today after being referred, what would they find? (0:42) Would they find much of anything?

(0:44) So you see, having a robust digital presence isn't just an advantage these days. (0:48) It is absolutely essential. (0:50) The way you connect with clients, showcase your properties and build your brand online can make or break your real estate business in today's digital age.

(0:58) So on today's episode, we are diving deep into the world of digital marketing, what that means, how to do it effectively and why it's a necessity these days and not just another way to reach clients. (1:10) And oh, by the way, there's lots of ways to do this that don't involve you being an expert at making videos. (1:15) Often it just means making it so that no matter the platform, a buyer or seller can look you up quickly and easily.

(1:22) And my guest today is an expert in showing you how to do this. (1:26) He's going to help you and your digital game or he's sorry, he's going to help you up your digital game. (1:32) And it isn't as difficult or as complicated as you might think.

(1:35) But before we get rolling here, if you find today's episode valuable, please share it with your fellow realtors. (1:40) We're all navigating this digital landscape together. (1:43) And if you think our show could benefit someone in your network, then share the love.

(1:46) I love hearing from new listeners to the show. (1:49) And all you folks have been and all you folks that have been here with us from the start of this little experiment are the key to helping us grow. (1:55) So take some time at the next stoplight and like, comment, share or subscribe.

(1:59) If you haven't already, your support is the fuel that keeps this engine running. (2:03) All right. (2:04) So let's get this sucker going.

(2:06) So joining me today is someone who truly mastered the art of digital marketing in the real estate space. (2:11) He's a former national sales trainer with Tony Robbins. (2:13) So I've got my hot coal walking feet on today.

(2:16) He's a leading expert in the mortgage marketing and the brilliant mind behind the Mortgage Marketing Institute. (2:22) He's also the host of the highly acclaimed Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast and author of Disrupt or Die, How to Survive and Thrive in the Digital Real Estate Show. (2:33) How to Survive and Thrive the Digital Real Estate Shift.

(2:35) So please welcome Jeff Zimper to the podcast. (2:38) Jeff, how are we doing, sir?

Geoff Zimpfer

(2:40) Doing great, Michael. (2:41) Thank you for the crowd. (2:44) The crowd is going crazy.

(2:46) Standing ovation. (2:47) That's right. (2:49) Hey, man, kudos to you.

(2:50) Thanks for putting this on for real estate agents. (2:53) I think that says a lot about you, that you are putting in the effort and the time and bringing the resources together to help your fellow agents navigate this whole shift digitally and otherwise that's happening. (3:05) So, man, hats off.

Mike Mills

(3:06) Well, I appreciate that. (3:07) I feel honored to kind of have you on today because you're quite the celebrity in the mortgage banker circle that I run in. (3:14) And I've heard from many people about how you help them kind of transform their business.

(3:18) So I'm really stoked to pick your brain today. (3:19) But I want to start off here. (3:21) So when we talk about the digital age that we're in right now, and I think everybody knows, you know, unless you're living under a rock somewhere or you're in the Amazon, you don't have access to the Internet.

(3:32) You understand how important an online presence is. (3:36) And yet it's still a major hurdle for most real estate agents and real estate professionals. (3:42) So, you know, you've talked to so many people about this.

(3:44) Why do you think that it's still such a major hurdle for folks?

Geoff Zimpfer

(3:48) To show up online and to put content out there?

Mike Mills

(3:51) Yeah, just to have content or even like I run into agents all the time now that that if I go look for them on LinkedIn or I go look on Facebook or YouTube or whatever, I have a really hard time finding them because, you know, they're not really putting them in. (4:05) And that's just something simple like your digital business card on every platform that's out there, whether you post or not. (4:10) And I just don't understand why that's why that's such a still a big hurdle for a lot of folks.

Geoff Zimpfer

(4:15) Yeah, it's a great question. (4:16) It's an eternal question. (4:17) I think the answer to that varies a little bit based on the person.

(4:20) But if I were to try to take to cover as many people as I could in that answer, if you take a look at the demographics of real estate agents, right, the average real estate agent is what? (4:32) Fifty something years old, right? (4:33) Same in the mortgage space.

(4:35) So and I'm just speaking for myself. (4:38) I'm I'm actually tomorrow turning fifty nine. (4:40) So.

Mike Mills

(4:41) Oh, really? (4:42) Hey, man, you don't look an age over forty nine. (4:44) Congratulations.

Geoff Zimpfer

(4:45) Hopefully the lighting is helping. (4:46) That's right. (4:47) I think the lighting helps.

(4:48) Actually, it really shows the quality of life I've had.

Mike Mills

(4:52) At least you still got all your hair. (4:53) I'm struggling.

Geoff Zimpfer

(4:55) But I think the answer to that and when I've spoken to the agents and the feedback I get from them is that, let's just face it, for many, it is outside of our comfort zone.

Mike Mills

(5:05) Right.

Geoff Zimpfer

(5:06) And that's, I think, generationally, because we, you know, different than the folks that are 30 something or whatever that are coming up in the business are very comfortable kind of putting themselves out there. (5:15) Some people are just generally more comfortable than others. (5:17) But I think that's the first hurdle is understanding that this is the new media medium.

(5:24) The new way of connecting and engaging with people today is digitally online through these phones. (5:31) And and I think that's a process we have to go through that comes with a certain amount of resistance because there's a learning curve that has to happen to. (5:41) And the other thing that goes with that, again, this is just speaking for myself is I don't know about you, but I'm pretty confident that anybody listening to this also before they hit post to a certain degree, they are.

(5:57) I don't know, fearful is the word when you put yourself out there in any way, exposing yourself, sharing yourself, putting yourself on display, you're going to subject yourself to a certain amount of potential criticism, feedback, negative, there's there's positive as well. (6:15) But I'm just saying, you know, you get the whole you've got to be comfortable enough, anti-fragile enough to be OK with putting yourself out there, you know, damn the torpedoes, be it whatever it be. (6:29) Right.

Mike Mills

(6:30) Yes, I, I, I understand that fear completely. (6:33) But, you know, my comeback to that a lot of times and I tell this to my kids, not related to social media, but just related to life is that, you know, and this sounds callous, I guess, but I tell my kids all the time, I'm like, nobody cares about you. (6:45) And I mean that in the nicest way in that it's it's something that we all think because our your entire life, my entire life is engrossed in what I do every day, what you do every day.

(6:56) Right. (6:57) We are thinking about us 24 seven because we all live right here. (7:00) Right.

(7:00) But the reality is, is so does everybody else. (7:03) Right. (7:03) So so they may see something that you post online or, you know, with my kids and related to sports, you might make a mistake on the field or whatever.

(7:10) But everybody, except for you and me and your mom, maybe have moved on to whatever else is occurring in our brain. (7:17) That two seconds that we saw you do something silly or had a thought in our head is gone because we're not thinking about it now. (7:24) If you are, you know, Gary Vee or Alex Ramosi or your Tom Brady.

(7:30) OK, fine. (7:30) You know, maybe even you, Jeff, because you've got a pretty big platform. (7:33) There might be some, you know, negative feedback that you experience because people like to be trolls.

(7:40) But for the most part, until you get to a level of, you know, velocity that so many people are watching you, it seems to be that the vast majority of comments or reactions or whatever you're going to get is going to be positive because it's going to come from your network of people that want to support you. (7:57) And I think that, you know, it is a hurdle, like you said, but I also feel like it's a perceived hurdle. (8:02) That's not really reality until you get to a certain level.

Geoff Zimpfer

(8:05) Well, how many of the hurdles we create in our lives are perceived and created by ourselves, right, versus reality? (8:12) But it's still it's still the. (8:15) Yeah, it's the fear of like, I know, Gary Vee, seeing as you mentioned him, he his answer to that question is fear, fear of being judged.

(8:21) Yeah. (8:22) You know, because, you know, what if we would have? (8:25) Oh, I was going to say we tend to judge by the wrong metric, which is my video.

(8:30) I didn't get any views. (8:31) Yes, my post didn't get any engagement. (8:33) And we're judging that as the success metric.

(8:35) And I think that gets in people's head of like, well, because we're always comparing ourselves to these people so far ahead of us, Gary Vee or whoever. (8:41) And it's like we're comparing the fourth quarter to our to our friggin we're in the locker room still. (8:46) Yeah, we're in the minor leagues practicing.

(8:48) Yeah, right. (8:49) So we're doing ourselves the disservice. (8:51) And like one quick takeaway that the way I sometimes work, play this game with myself is like I'm I always say to myself, if I'm showing up to serve, I can't lose.

(9:01) Right. (9:01) So if I'm just showing up to serve to somehow deliver something of value to somebody, whether it gets a one view or a million views, I win no matter what, because I'm living on purpose, so to speak.

Mike Mills

(9:13) Right. (9:13) You're out there serving your own purpose, regardless of what anybody else is saying or doing or whatever, which, you know, at the end of the day is key to most things in life, because if you're if you absorb yourself with everybody else's thoughts and concerns about what you do all day long, you're going to be a very unhappy person. (9:29) So never leave the house.

(9:30) Yeah, my favorite. (9:31) I have this is my NFT shirt because we were talking about digital stuff today. (9:34) But but I have another shirt that a friend made for me that I love.

(9:38) There's a there's a little girl on. (9:40) It's you know, I've seen her on TikTok and Reels and whatever. (9:42) But it's this little girl in the backseat of her car putting her buckle on when her seat, you know, like her car seat.

(9:48) And her dad's like, hey, do you need some help? (9:50) And she's like, no, I got this. (9:51) And he's like, are you sure?

(9:52) She's like, worry about yourself. (9:53) Worry about yourself. (9:54) And she's back there.

(9:55) So like the whole video, she's just saying, worry about yourself. (9:58) So I have a shirt that just says, worry about yourself. (10:01) Like, don't worry about what everybody else thinks.

(10:03) Be the best version of you. (10:04) You can be all the time and you will get to where you want to go. (10:07) It may not happen in the amount of time that you wish, because everything takes, you know, effort and consistency and hard work.

(10:13) But you'll get there. (10:15) And, you know, I'm sure, you know, being a former Tony Robbins coach, that that stuff's ingrained in your brain for your entire life, I would imagine.

Geoff Zimpfer

(10:24) Well, like I said, right, we all have our own little unique experience of the world. (10:28) We're bringing in whatever baggage or preconceived notions and beliefs and that voice in our head. (10:34) And I think, you know, being successful real estate agent, mortgage originator, entrepreneur like that is a personal development course in and of itself, because we have to work through so much headspace stuff, you know, to continue to evolve and grow.

(10:48) And there's constant different resistance and challenges and headwinds along the way. (10:53) And we, you know, like that old saying, it's like survival of the fittest. (10:57) Well, actually, the truth is, it's survival of the most survival of those who survive are those that are most adaptable to change.

(11:04) And those who can actually learn the new skills kind of relevant to what we're talking about in this digital shift. (11:09) So it's not like, are you the strongest or the fastest? (11:12) It's are you the most adaptable to change?

(11:14) Those are the ones who actually survive.

Mike Mills

(11:16) Yes. (11:16) And those that persist, you know, you got to wake up tomorrow and keep going. (11:20) Tomorrow's another day.

(11:21) You don't get to sleep in for too long. (11:24) OK, so so I want to start with, you know, when we talk about presenting yourself in a digital manner online and having a footprint out there, you know, everybody automatically assumes that, OK, I got to make videos. (11:36) I got to be dancing or I got to make educational videos.

(11:38) It's all video, video, which, again, it is right for sure. (11:42) But from your perspective and what you've seen, what other important factors like, you know, if somebody's like, look, I can't make a video yet. (11:50) OK, fine.

(11:50) Then let's start here. (11:52) You know, what what are the baby steps? (11:54) Like, how do we get into the kiddie pool of making sure that we're starting to to present ourself in a digital manner?

(11:59) So those clients that are looking for us after they were referred can find us.

Geoff Zimpfer

(12:03) Sure. (12:04) Yeah, great question. (12:05) So we actually do these digital audits like in my community.

(12:08) I work with on officers and they'll do a kind of an audit of the digital. (12:14) What when you as you said earlier, when we look you up, what do we find? (12:17) And so my loan officers do that with real estate agents.

(12:19) And the first place, the easiest place to start is your Google business profile. (12:23) OK, period. (12:24) Because as you know, even if you get referred, people are going to look you up.

(12:27) They're going to want to look at reviews. (12:28) You look at we all look at reviews like crazy because we want to know what are other people saying. (12:33) And so first place is start with your Google business profile.

(12:36) Make sure it's optimized. (12:38) There's plenty of YouTube videos and other resources for that. (12:41) But you have to be growing consistently your online reviews there just from a pure credibility standpoint.

(12:46) Because people will judge you by that. (12:50) If it's side by side, like if like right now, if you pulled up on your computer, like, you know, best realtor near me or something, you're going to get different realtors who show up and they're going to have different amounts of reviews. (13:00) And then there's the top three, which is called the Google three pack.

(13:03) And so we tend to be drawn to the people who have the more, you know, established presence, recency of reviews, quantity of reviews, full optimized profile on Google, which is the photos and other things you can now do on the Google business profile, listings, et cetera, et cetera. (13:20) But that is, by the way, that doesn't require you to be on video or dance or do anything other than get reviews and then optimize the profile. (13:29) So you can actually post listings on Google pictures of homes.

(13:32) Yeah. (13:32) With a link to different websites. (13:34) Yeah.

Mike Mills

(13:35) Well, and I've always heard and I don't know, you may know better than this, but, you know, every platform, my assumption, whatever it is, and especially Google likes it, if you use as many of their products and services as possible, is that a, is that a fair statement?

Geoff Zimpfer

(13:48) Yeah. (13:49) And now Google actually is bringing in posts, which is relevant to why should we even be online? (13:55) Oh, you can post on your Google page now.

(13:58) Sure. (13:58) You can definitely post on your Google page, but now even a Google search will bring in your posts from social media into that search. (14:05) Really?

(14:06) Yeah. (14:06) Okay. (14:07) So they're, they're a whole web.

(14:09) So there's this thing called, it's been a minute since I looked at it, Google authority, I believe it's what it's called. (14:16) But when it comes to ranking just, you know, organic SEO ranking, Google's going to look at your presence online, not only on its own properties, but it's also going to look to Facebook, Instagram and other properties where it can like, you know, know what you've got for content and recency out there. (14:31) Cause it wants to serve up the most relevant search possible.

Mike Mills

(14:34) Wow. (14:35) Okay. (14:35) Well that I didn't even, that's, that's great.

(14:37) So that's something that they've kind of added to, you know, their search function is now they're actually searching social media sites, not just the basic internet. (14:44) Okay.

Geoff Zimpfer

(14:45) If you search certain certain things, you're going to get videos obviously from YouTube coming in, right? (14:51) That's just another form. (14:52) So they're going to probably try to prioritize their platforms, but that's just another example of why having content to be relevant today, it, you know, makes so much sense.

Mike Mills

(15:02) Yeah. (15:03) Well, and even, especially here in Texas you know, we, we've had such an influx of people from all over the country over the past five years that, you know, we're second or third, I think in as far as population growth. (15:14) So if you're coming from California or you're coming from New York or you're coming from other state, another state to move to Texas, you don't have a network there.

(15:22) So the only place that you can find someone to help you is through is online obviously, and everybody goes to Google. (15:28) And so the agents that I've seen that have had a ton of success over the last, you know, 24 months, even with volume being much, much lower than it has been in the past, are those that have really been able to optimize search from people coming out of state and picking up you know, those, those leads that you know, that aren't necessarily within your sphere, but need someone to find. (15:48) So if you can add a, they're going to find me when they search from out of state and B, I've got a ton of reviews on there and they can find my presence.

(15:54) Then your chances of getting that client just up dramatically at that point.

Geoff Zimpfer

(15:58) Yeah. (15:59) A hundred percent. (15:59) Because even if you get referred the first thing they're going to do before they call you is likely look you up.

(16:05) Yes.

Mike Mills

(16:05) Yeah. (16:06) As, as I stated in the beginning, they're going to try to find you one way or another to third party validation. (16:11) Right.

Geoff Zimpfer

(16:12) And, and so it's like the hummingbird thing. (16:14) Like you've ever seen a hummingbird in the backyard. (16:16) It goes from flower to flower.

(16:18) That's what the consumer journey is. (16:19) They're going to go to a few different platforms. (16:22) They're going to go to Google, they're going to go to Instagram or Facebook, depending upon the person.

(16:26) They're going to see, as you said at the outset is, you know, what is your online presence? (16:32) Is it professional? (16:33) Is it a step?

(16:34) Like if you have Google and you haven't had a review in six months, bit of a red flag, you know?

Mike Mills

(16:40) Yeah. (16:41) So when you work with now, obviously, you know, with your company, you guys work specifically with mortgage lenders. (16:46) Um, but you know, all this stuff is easily transferable to any industry, especially inside of real estate.

(16:51) So Google your business, get that set up, get that going. (16:53) And what's your, what's kind of your next step with your clients to say, okay, now that we have your, your profile, you know, findable now, what's, what's something that you kind of move into the next level?

Geoff Zimpfer

(17:04) Well, I think it starts with a step one at a very basic level is optimizing the profiles, Google being the first one. (17:10) And then the other presence you have if it's Facebook, if it's Instagram, most agents do not have their profile optimized on either of those other places either. (17:18) Um, it's, it's either, I can't tell what you do by looking at your profile or, you know, I can't tell that you're a realtor or there's no way to contact you.

(17:27) Like, you know, it's, it's like the book, the cover of the book, like you have like six seconds to capture people's attention of like, do you have a unique profile that's got some type of a connection? (17:38) I can maybe you're a single mom, maybe you're a military specialist, maybe you're a reload specialist. (17:41) I mean, there's all kinds of ways and examples to personalize your profile.

(17:46) But at a bare minimum, the truth is most people are actually missing accurate information on their profile. (17:52) Like if you go to people's Facebook business pages, some agents don't even have a Facebook business page because they may think, well, I don't really need one. (17:58) It's not relevant.

(17:59) Um, everything I do is on personal. (18:01) Well, that might be true. (18:02) Um, but if you ever want to run ads, you're going to need a Facebook business page, but you can't do it from just a personal page.

Mike Mills

(18:09) Or if you ever want your cousin's, you know, best friend's daughter who looking, who's looking for an agent that's never met you, but was referred to you to find you. (18:17) Well, that's a good place to be.

Geoff Zimpfer

(18:19) Yeah. (18:19) So I think the thing is, is we've got to understand that the consumer is everywhere today. (18:23) Like there used to be a much more defined consumer journey, but now it's all over the map in terms of the order and sequence that they go through.

(18:31) So that'd be, I would continue along the process of making sure your profiles are optimized.

Mike Mills

(18:37) Um, for somebody, if they say, I don't want my phone number or email out there on the internet, cause people are going to find me and call me all the time.

Geoff Zimpfer

(18:45) Well, I would say then, you know, you're closed for business, right?

Mike Mills

(18:50) I mean, sell me stuff and it's annoying and I don't want to deal with that.

Geoff Zimpfer

(18:54) Look, there's always different kind of parameters you can, well, that's why people don't answer their phone today. (18:59) Right. (18:59) But, uh, but I mean on Google alone, right, you've got the Google profile, you've got a direct, people can actually tap a button on their mobile phone and call your mobile phone directly when they're, when they go to your Google business profile.

(19:10) I think you want that, you know, um, you want to reduce friction. (19:15) Um, too many people want to be a secret agent and look at, and I'm not here to judge. (19:19) Like if you are the person who wants to do like three deals a year and you're cool with that, fine.

(19:23) Right. (19:24) Um, but if you really want to, like, I'll keep using this phrase, optimized presence, uh, then you need to be reachable. (19:31) You can put parameters around how people contact you.

(19:34) Maybe that's a Google phone number instead of your direct cell phone or something, but you've got to make it easy. (19:39) Reduce the friction.

Mike Mills

(19:40) Okay. (19:41) Are there, um, in your opinion, are there any platforms that you feel like right now are particularly advantageous? (19:48) Because, you know, we, when we talk about when we get actually into social media platforms, whether it be LinkedIn, Facebook, Tik TOK, you know, uh, Instagram, any of those Pinterest, you know, Reddit, whatever, there's, there's a ton of, so you can't be all things everywhere all the time.

(20:02) You can, like you said, optimize your profile on all those pages. (20:05) So if someone's a Reddit user, they can find you. (20:08) If someone's a LinkedIn user, they can find you, you know, whatever.

(20:10) You may not have a lot of posts, a lot of activity, but you're there. (20:12) Right. (20:13) So the, the advice that a lot of, you know, marketing experts, social media people give is, you know, focus on one platform because if you get really good at that one platform, it's just like niche marketing.

(20:24) If I'm really good at selling to relocation people coming from California, looking for a farm and ranch, then I'm going to have a bunch much better presence than if I'm just a realtor in Texas. (20:33) So is there any particular platform that you think, you know, especially in this day and age is, or today I should say is, is more advantageous than others because like even with Instagram, right. (20:44) Everybody loves Instagram, but Instagram's got to a place where it's kind of tough to make a lot of headway there because that's where everybody is, especially in our space.

Geoff Zimpfer

(20:54) Yeah. (20:54) It's a great question. (20:55) And it's one that's not easily answered.

(20:58) Because there are some people who do well on Instagram, some people who don't write something like people tend to gravitate towards their own platforms that they, they, like I used to always say, right, right. (21:10) I'm like, where, where do you hang out? (21:11) Or people always used to ask, well, like where do I start?

(21:13) Well, I'm like, well, where do you hang out? (21:15) Do you hang out on Facebook? (21:16) Start there.

(21:16) Do you hang out on IgE? (21:17) Start there. (21:18) Um, but to, to really, it's, it's a great question you've asked.

(21:22) And I've thought about this a lot recently because I'm trying to look at, you know, quote unquote, where to be through the lens of what makes sense business wise versus where I'm comfortable hanging out. (21:38) Like it's really easy to hang out on Instagram, right? (21:40) Just do the thing and the posts and the this and that.

(21:42) And Instagram is easy to create content to, uh, learn the basics, reels, grab your phone, right? (21:47) It's not that hard once you've kind of got it down. (21:50) Um, however, if I'm pressed to really answer your question, I mean, if, if, but let me put, let me say it this way.

(21:58) If I was a real estate agent today, I would have my presence on Instagram and Facebook, but I would probably be doubling down on YouTube. (22:08) And the reason why is because what makes YouTube different, it's technically not social media. (22:15) Uh, it is a search platform.

(22:18) Yes. (22:18) And, and we want to get found. (22:20) And we know from data that people are searching for real estate related content on YouTube.

(22:27) And by the way, I don't know if you've seen some of these studies, but I also know that first time homebuyers next gen YouTube is, I think just beyond friends and family, the second place they go for financial information about buying a house, about mortgages, about, you know, savings and investment in those types of things. (22:48) And it is this huge destination opportunity of, of longterm engagement. (22:55) So that's part one.

(22:56) Part two is YouTube lives on forever. (22:59) Meaning you'll have videos that you've posted a year ago, six months ago that still get views and you can get a deal from a video from a year ago. (23:06) Like that's not going to happen on Instagram and Facebook.

(23:09) Um, last, last little point to YouTube, it is harder. (23:13) It is more work. (23:15) It does take more thought and time to put together the right structure of a YouTube video.

(23:24) And it's gotta be once a week. (23:25) And you know, so these various things go into creating that content, but it's also I think a much wider opportunity for those that are willing to do it.

Mike Mills

(23:34) I heard somebody one time describe it, um, which I really, really like is because you know, we're, we're a little older and of the older generation, I mean, you know, to some extent. (23:44) So it's when we used to watch television as kids, right? (23:48) When you would, when you would go home, it was, you know, I, my, I watched dynasty.

(23:52) Do you remember dynasty? (23:53) The, the TV show or Jr. Yeah. (23:56) Well that was, that was a Dallas.

Geoff Zimpfer

(23:58) Okay. (23:58) Sorry. (23:59) So there you go.

Mike Mills

(23:59) He was the Carrington. (24:00) Which ones? (24:02) Yeah, yeah.

(24:03) There was, they were all kind of lumped together. (24:05) But, but as a kid, like I'm literally 10 years old. (24:09) Okay.

(24:10) And we had, I think we might've had two TVs at that point, but I think we had one TV that we were in the living room. (24:15) Well, I don't get to choose what we're watching. (24:17) My parents get to choose what we're watching.

(24:19) So whether I want to or not as a 10 year old, I'm watching two 50 year olds make out and have simulated, you know, whatever on national TV. (24:27) Right. (24:28) I'm locked in.

(24:29) Like I was locked into it, the whole thing. (24:32) Maybe what's kind of messed me up as an adult. (24:34) We'll see.

(24:35) But the point being is that that show started every whatever, Wednesday night at nine o'clock and it was on and it was must tune in, must watch. (24:45) And I've heard people describe part of YouTube's algorithm is if you're going to post a, you need to post consistently and at the same time, because they want people to come and look for your stuff every week to, because they're trying to keep you on the platform. (25:01) So if you're putting out your, you know, why you shouldn't move to Plano, Texas video or why you should move to Frisco and it comes out every Monday at eight o'clock and it's on there for 45 minutes and you've done it for two years, I promise you, you're going to get lots of traction on that video.

(25:18) Now the where people get frustrated because we all had this, you know, (25:22) this short attention span, again, thanks to all these platforms, (25:25) we can't focus on anything longer than 30 seconds is on the, (25:30) when you aggregate that over the longterm, if I post for six months even, (25:33) and I'm getting frustrated because I'm still sitting at a hundred views or 200 (25:37) views or whatever and I don't change anything or do anything different, (25:40) I just keep, you can get frustrated and people tend to give up. (25:43) And I'm sure you've seen, you know, especially doing the podcast stuff is when I first started doing this, I would go look for, okay, what other podcasts are out there in my niche? (25:50) You know, where can I fit in?

(25:51) And I found a ton, like I found a bunch of them and then I would click on it and I would go to it and there would be seven episodes or there would be 20 and then that's it. (26:01) And then they just gave up. (26:03) And it's just like, you can't win this game in the short term.

(26:06) It is a longterm game. (26:08) And when you go look at those that have been consistently posting for five years and are out there, those are the ones that are, that are winning right now. (26:15) Not the one that just started six months ago and all of a sudden went viral.

(26:18) It happens, but it's very rare.

Geoff Zimpfer

(26:21) Yeah, no, it does happen. (26:22) But I think that's, that's why I remember I, I interviewed Sean Canal. (26:27) Do you know who, who he is?

(26:28) I do not. (26:29) It's pretty big. (26:29) He's got a YouTube platform called think media works.

Mike Mills

(26:32) I know that platform for sure. (26:35) Yes.

Geoff Zimpfer

(26:35) So very successful YouTuber. (26:37) I think he has over a million subs on that one channel.

Mike Mills

(26:40) Yes, yes, yes. (26:41) I've seen a bunch of, he's got like a kind of grayish salt and pepper beard kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah. (26:46) He sits at a table in a room and talk.

(26:48) Yes.

Geoff Zimpfer

(26:48) I've watched you live here in Vegas part time. (26:50) But anyway, I had him on the show and I remember like, that's what I said to him across the table. (26:54) I was like, man, YouTube is hard.

(26:56) And he's like, yeah, it is hard. (26:58) Right. (26:58) That's why most people don't do it because everybody wants, like you said, the easy button thing.

(27:03) And if you're willing to, I think that's the other part of your original question is kind of like this conversation around why do, why do not enough people get on the bandwagon and really get going with this whole digital presence thing? (27:16) Yeah, it's work. (27:17) Yeah.

(27:18) It's hard. (27:18) Yeah. (27:18) You've got to learn these new skills and adapt and like get comfortable putting out video.

(27:24) And, and it's, I'll tell you for me, I've, as I told you before we hit record, I started refocusing on YouTube and I'm using like these different platforms recording. (27:33) And it's just like, Oh my God, it's been frustrating to learn how to do this and this and this. (27:38) But you gotta get, keep the big picture in mind.

(27:40) Like, why are you doing this? (27:41) If you, if you aren't following real estate agents and or the people that help them sell real estate from YouTube, you should because sometimes you need to hear the success stories of so-and-so who closed this deal or that deal, or now they're getting 40% of their business from YouTube. (27:58) Right.

(27:59) So there are people winning. (28:01) You know, as long as you're willing to stay in it long enough, you'll win too.

Mike Mills

(28:05) I want to shift gears just a little bit into something that you wrote about in your book about lead generation strategies, because you know, these days, especially with, with the market, I mean, we went from literally the hottest real estate market in the history of the planet to the, one of the slowest markets in history. (28:27) So, and, and, and in a very, very short amount of time, which is, which is unusual. (28:31) So, you know, a lot of realtors have left the business.

(28:34) A lot of lenders have left the business. (28:35) Everything's kind of, you know, grinding down. (28:37) We're hoping rates turn around, all that kind of stuff.

(28:39) But so finding customers right now, cause we all network our sphere, right? (28:44) Everybody. (28:44) But when your sphere goes from having one or two people call you every week to look for a house to one person calling you every month, okay, you gotta start looking outside that sphere and trying to find people that you didn't reach before.

(28:57) So give me some, some of the, you know, the hierarchy of how you feel like the most effective way to generate leads using this type of media is, you know, based on what you wrote in your book.

Geoff Zimpfer

(29:08) Yeah. (29:08) Yeah. (29:08) Great question.

(29:10) Obviously. (29:10) Okay. (29:11) So you covered the spheres thing.

(29:12) So you're, you're asking outside of your sphere, where else can we find opportunity?

Mike Mills

(29:15) Yeah.

Geoff Zimpfer

(29:16) Yeah. (29:18) That's going to go back to having content and presence online. (29:22) I think you have to serve, like get really clear about who are you serving?

(29:25) Like what problems are you trying to solve?

Mike Mills

(29:27) Identify your audience. (29:29) Yeah.

Geoff Zimpfer

(29:29) Yeah. (29:30) Like what are the problems you're trying to solve? (29:31) Like you can't just say, I'm a real estate agent.

(29:34) Right. (29:34) So what big deal for who? (29:36) And not just for who, but what problems do you help them overcome?

(29:39) Because that will, that will fuel your content strategy. (29:44) And determine like, you know, who it is that you're really, really trying to reach. (29:47) So get clear on that.

(29:48) Number one, you know, there's a saying that you're most equipped to help the person you once were. (29:53) So if you were once a first time home buyer, you had challenges with credit or whatever the thing is, maybe you can relate to that for some reason. (30:00) I think, you know, back to the content strategy.

(30:02) So, so start telling success stories, meaning, Hey, we just worked with, you know, this wonderful family who just relocated from California to Texas and here's their challenge, right? (30:11) It was this, this, this, this, but here's how we help them overcome that. (30:14) So that's something that people can sink their teeth into.

(30:17) That's just organic type stuff. (30:20) Then, you know, if you really want to get tactical, well, I think in this market who's buying and selling the really motivated. (30:30) And so who are the really motivated?

(30:32) Well, when it comes to selling, those are probably people who neither need to move because they're getting relocated. (30:38) Their family's growing and no matter what they got to get out of the house or they might be running into some financial challenges and they might be getting behind on their payments or whatnot. (30:46) So an example of that would be, you know, I've done some work with agents and title reps where they would pull delinquencies like notice of defaults for example.

(30:55) And there's, there's this strategy of you marketing to those, those people who are, um, you know, uh, in, in a bit of a challenge, right? (31:05) And that they may be likely candidates to sell because they're behind on payments or whatever the situation is. (31:12) There's also the divorce niche.

(31:14) Like I've often said that if I ever got back in originating, I would want to be a specialist in something that could be reversed. (31:20) That could be a divorce because those two things are always persistent and consistent. (31:25) People are always divorced no matter what the hell the interest rates are.

(31:28) Um, and people always want to, yeah, they will always want to work with a specialist too. (31:32) Yeah. (31:32) So I think you've got to get clear on who it is you want to serve, the types of problems that you solve, the type of people you most enjoy working with because then you'll get really clear about the connection and it's all going to come back to connection and how you connect with helping people on that.

(31:48) I don't know if that helps.

Mike Mills

(31:50) On the, on the connection front, do you feel like, or have you experienced with working with people within your network? (31:55) Cause I've seen a few and I really, I think it's a great method. (31:59) I just don't know what the metrics show.

(32:01) You know, a lot of agents will make videos of here's about me and here's how I can help you. (32:05) And here's this house or here's whatever, right? (32:08) Versus I loved what you said a minute ago about here's this story of this family that came from California and what they went through to get to this place to where they could buy this home.

(32:18) And this is how I helped them accomplish this goal. (32:22) So the idea of creating narratives and creating interesting stories that people can engage in versus just, Hey, here's the first time home buyer. (32:30) You need to watch out for it.

(32:31) You know, I mean, have you seen much, uh, have you seen many people kind of take that angle and have success with that? (32:38) Cause I just feel like when you look at content these days, you know, the ones that grab you, the grab me are, you know, are something that, you know, a story of somebody of a human, human touch there. (32:48) So is that, have you found that or seen anybody have success using that method?

Geoff Zimpfer

(32:53) Using stories? (32:54) Yeah. (32:55) Oh, of course, man.

(32:56) I mean, that's who doesn't love a story. (32:59) We all love a story. (32:59) You ever see a speaker who opens up with a story, right?

(33:03) Cause it creates a connection and then you're taking somebody on a journey. (33:07) I think the biggest challenge real estate agents have is that there's a lack of differentiation or value. (33:13) Like why should I value your service?

(33:15) I just pulled up a slide from one of our presentations and it was from a survey done by a thousand watt consulting. (33:20) And they said, why do you feel the services of a real estate agent are not necessary when buying a home? (33:25) 45% said because I can find homes myself online and tour them at open houses.

(33:31) A 38% said because it seems simpler to me to just work with the agent representing the seller.

Mike Mills

(33:37) Believe that I actually, I can, I mean it's crazy, but I certainly can. (33:42) Cause that's just, you know, that's how the hell consumers look at it.

Geoff Zimpfer

(33:45) So again, this comes back to being informed. (33:48) Like are you a student of the market? (33:50) And so how would you, what would be the answer to content on this?

(33:54) How would you respond to this with content? (33:56) You would tell a story of something and I'm just looking at my slides here, but a caption might be, you know, um, Zillow search, easy successfully negotiating with sellers in today's market. (34:08) Hard.

(34:09) We take care of the hard part. (34:10) Or you do a story that says, Hey, you know what? (34:13) On the surface it might seem easy, right?

(34:16) But then you've got to give a little behind the scenes in terms of like what goes into a successful transaction, negotiating and closing deals. (34:22) You like this whole thing of like sold in six minutes, like needs to stop, you know? (34:28) Because if it's that easy, what the hell, I'm going to go for the 2% listing service.

Mike Mills

(34:32) Or the, do you, how do you feel about the, um, you know, I'm the top 500 realtor in the country and here's all my trophies and here's the, the, the 20 homes sold and my revenue. (34:45) What do you think about that type of posting?

Geoff Zimpfer

(34:48) I mean everyone wants to work. (34:49) That's where the Google reviews actually comes in bigger than that. (34:52) Um, because that's somebody else saying the thing about you, not you saying about it.

Mike Mills

(34:57) Right.

Geoff Zimpfer

(34:57) Right. (34:57) Um, so I think it's, yeah, people want to work with a successful agent who can get the job done. (35:02) But if it seems overly self promotional, that's, you know, that once again, that's you being self promotional instead of just saying, Hey, you know, we've worked with 1100 clients in the last 20 years.

(35:13) We've got, you know, five star reviews, 700 of them, whatever. (35:16) Hey, you don't have to believe me. (35:16) You can go right here and go check them out or go to our website and check out the list of success stories we have.

(35:21) That's probably the way I would personally do it.

Mike Mills

(35:25) Um, another question. (35:28) So do you have very many clients within your sphere there that are having success digitally but not in video, right? (35:37) Where, where they're not making videos or maybe maybe just not making videos with them in it, but, but maybe video isn't as big of a piece of it, but are still finding ways to have a pretty strong digital footprint.

(35:49) Are you seeing that out there just as an alternative to if you don't feel getting, feel comfortable getting in front of a camera? (35:56) Yeah. (35:56) You know, short answer is yes.

Geoff Zimpfer

(35:58) And I think for those that are willing to pick up the phone and or text people personal video messages where the context of you receiving a video message from me is appropriate. (36:11) Like if I don't know you, right, if there's some, you know what I'm saying? (36:15) Like after this, if I sent you a video was just like, Hey Mike, thanks so much for the blah, blah.

(36:19) That'd be like totally cool and appropriate. (36:20) Right. (36:21) I think what's missing and this might just be me showing my age, but I've talked to enough other people who agree with this.

(36:28) What's missing. (36:29) We got so lazy with COVID with the housing market being on fire and things selling in six seconds and 32 offers and stuff that the whole, like it's too easy. (36:42) The connection, the, I'm your, I'm your guide and I'm going to help you through that process.

(36:46) Well, now it's the complete opposite of that. (36:48) And what people I think want more is connection. (36:53) Like one of the, one of my people I had on the podcast I remember his quote, which is the most human brand wins.

(37:00) Like we can't automate relationships. (37:03) Automation is appropriate. (37:04) When I saw somebody posted earlier today on Facebook, they posted this, Hey, I just put this video together about like this automated.

(37:11) It's a, it's a chat bot that pre qualifies people for you. (37:16) Okay. (37:16) And I was like, I'm trying to understand it.

(37:20) And I'm going to take a look at it before I write, really make any esoteric, esoteric trash too bad. (37:26) Right. (37:26) Yeah.

Mike Mills

(37:27) Yeah. (37:27) I mean my first thought of that is like, why would you, that's insane. (37:30) Like you want to talk, you know, it's one thing about gathering data.

(37:33) Fine. (37:33) You want to gather data, use it. (37:34) But it's a whole other thing about, Hey, here's going to be the biggest transaction of your life.

(37:38) And I'm going to tell you, you know, what you can or can't do. (37:41) And Oh, by the way, here's my robot friend. (37:42) Who's going to explain it all.

(37:43) Like what?

Geoff Zimpfer

(37:45) And I think the problem is, is we are outsourcing ourselves by trying to automate too many things, right? (37:51) You know, because the prequalification, but now I get to your point as well. (37:55) If this is collecting some basic info up front, just to tee up the conversation.

(37:59) All right. (37:59) It makes sense to a degree, but I'm fearful of people automating the relationship and connection aspect, which is what wins no matter what.

Mike Mills

(38:08) Right. (38:09) Well, and Oh, by the way, you know, if you're a realtor or a lender and you're doing this job, there are people that are trying to do that to you and they are trying to automate you out of it already. (38:20) You don't have to do it to yourself.

(38:21) So hang on as long as you can, because there are plenty of large companies, whether they have success or not. (38:27) There's a lot of big money and a lot of big companies that are trying to automate you completely out of the process. (38:32) Especially if you're a lender, by the way.

(38:34) So, you know, it's, it's, it's certainly, you don't want to help them along that path. (38:38) That personal connection, real estate is a personal transaction. (38:42) It is a very personal transaction.

(38:44) So in order to have the personal connection with past clients, which is where you should get most of your business, if you've been doing this for any extended period of time, you have to have that connection. (38:54) It doesn't mean that it has to be personal at every step of the way. (38:57) It just means that the most important pieces of that process, which is the first connection on, okay, here's what you can do.

(39:03) Here's how you can do it. (39:04) Or you're the realtor, obviously showing homes and going through, you know, your, your listing presentation on what you think it's worth and all that stuff. (39:11) You want to have yourself be involved in that step and, and be as personal in that as you can, because if you automate yourself out of it, then you're going to be a driving door dash if you're not careful.

Geoff Zimpfer

(39:23) Yeah. (39:23) And I think, look at, like I said, back to the COVID thing, we've just gotten lazy. (39:27) We've fallen out of good habits because the market allowed us to, and now we're trying to figure our way back.

(39:34) And I know that there's a lack of actually people talking to people and just having conversations and for the agents that are winning. (39:45) I mean, no, that's the ultimate end goal of any marketing activity you're doing is to have a conversation with somebody.

Mike Mills

(39:50) Absolutely. (39:51) Yeah. (39:52) Let's get back to video just a little bit, because I think there are, you know, obviously, especially with the younger generation, there are a lot of folks getting into video.

(39:59) So, you know, just as many people not doing it as are doing it. (40:03) What, what do you feel like when it comes to video content in general? (40:07) So we have two categories that I would put them in.

(40:09) You've got your short firm short form, which is your reels and those kinds of things, which are, everybody's making those. (40:14) And then you've got your long form, which could be three to five minutes, 60 minutes, whatever. (40:17) You know, we put these podcasts on YouTube.

(40:19) That's a long form too. (40:21) When it looks, when it comes to strategies on how to, how to make these right, how to create these videos and what is the most effective way to do them. (40:28) If you are into video content, what are kind of some pillars of, Hey, if you're going to make a video, make sure you do this, this, this and this to get the best reaction.

Geoff Zimpfer

(40:38) Great question. (40:39) And while I'm answering the question, I want to give a shout out to the chat. (40:42) What's up, Tiffany Saxton.

Mike Mills

(40:43) How you doing checking us out there and Tanya as well.

Geoff Zimpfer

(40:48) Yeah. (40:48) What's up, Tanya. (40:49) We lost a lot of customer service muscles because of COVID agreed.

(40:53) So kind of what is the video cookie making process, right? (40:57) Like how do you make the cookies? (40:59) Yeah, there is an art and a science to that.

(41:02) And it's something that I've had to learn and continue to try and learn.

Mike Mills

(41:05) That's one of the, you never have it all figured out by the way, there's always a learning curve to it.

Geoff Zimpfer

(41:10) And that's one of those new skills like, you know, is to grab this phone and learn how to actually hit recording, create a video that might be engaging. (41:18) So I think most people would probably be aware of like the first step to a video is a video is an opening hook, right? (41:25) Like the first three seconds.

(41:28) What are you going to say that's going to capture people's attention? (41:30) You got three seconds. (41:31) And so that's like some opening line, like, you know, that did you know, or here are three ways to, or here's what I learned or let me tell you a story or there's all kinds of, um, Mike Mills with Geneva financial and I help people get loans.

Mike Mills

(41:47) That's not, that's not a good, a good hook.

Geoff Zimpfer

(41:51) Yeah, no, it's like, you know, get to the point. (41:55) Like why should I watch the video in the first three to five seconds? (41:58) I got to know what the hell this video is about or else I got like 700 videos to go swipe to of cats or whatever that are going to, you know, exactly.

(42:08) So I do think it's important to learn the formula and you could do well to study different formulas out there. (42:14) Um, of those, I can't think of any off the top of my head of people that I might, might suggest, but look what other people look at the videos that you, I think the other thing I try and do now, even though when I watch like speakers and trainers now, um, I try and watch it from the context of what are they actually doing, right? (42:31) Because any good speaker, any good presenter, salesperson, and this includes your presenting on video, if you're doing it, yes, you want it.

(42:41) There are the percentage of times where you're just not like stories. (42:44) Stories is just off the cuff. (42:45) Hey, here I am standing at Walmart.

(42:48) Can you believe this? (42:49) Whatever. (42:49) Right.

(42:49) That kind of random. (42:50) Those are great for stories, but the more structured videos like reels and the long form content like YouTube and stuff, those follow a formula of opening hook, right? (42:59) Um, you know, the, the, the payoff to watching the video, like what is the video about?

(43:03) And then you get into it. (43:04) If that makes sense.

Mike Mills

(43:05) Yeah. (43:06) Yeah. (43:06) It's the, yeah, you have your hook.

(43:07) Why am I watching this? (43:08) What problem are you going to solve for me? (43:11) And then how do I solve that problem?

(43:13) And then make sure you solve the problem at the end, right? (43:16) Don't, don't leave them wanting more, um, because otherwise they move on to other things. (43:20) And, and I think, you know, you're seeing a lot more these days, but it's, and you're seeing some of the platforms adapted to this because YouTube is especially doing this is where you can create a YouTube short.

(43:30) It's, you know, it has to be a minute long. (43:32) It can't be longer than that. (43:33) They've, they put restrictions on their captions or captions are only a hundred characters.

(43:37) You can't, you know, put a bunch of details in there, but you can make a quick video and then you can link that re or that short, a YouTube short to a long form video if someone wants more details. (43:49) And I like to think of those reels and those shorts as kind of like the appetizer into something more detailed. (43:56) And you can give, you can answer a question and solve a problem in less than a minute, but you can also leave a little bit on the meat, a little bit meat on the bone and say, Hey, look, there's more to this.

(44:07) If you want more details, you know, check out the video or whatever. (44:10) But, but you know, those short form videos, you don't have to solve the entire problem in one second or give all of the details to it. (44:16) In fact, in a lot of cases, I think it's better to kind of leave a little bit of, you know, give the answer, but you know, there's a lot of steps to this that I couldn't go into in 30 in 60 seconds.

(44:27) So, you know, here's another video you can check out if you want to get a little deeper into that.

Geoff Zimpfer

(44:32) Yeah. (44:32) It's, it's breadcrumbs, you know? (44:33) So you're leaving a trail to the big payoff, the pub, the pot of gold or whatever.

(44:38) The shorts will get you hopefully to that end payoff.

Mike Mills

(44:41) Are you finding because, okay, so this is something that I've experienced personally when I'm dealing with, you know, trying to say cut clips from my podcast and try to create repurpose that content. (44:51) Are there any tools that you guys are using today that you find especially effective in helping you know, save time and money on on either editing or coming up with content or you know, anything that's going to help somebody that's like, I don't even know where to start. (45:06) You know, what are, what are some tools that either are free or relatively inexpensive that you guys are recommending to your clients?

Geoff Zimpfer

(45:12) Yeah. (45:13) So for video editing related tools, I've been using Opus pro Opus clips. (45:18) O P U S is how it's spelled.

(45:20) Um, and they have a, I think a free trial, but also different levels of service. (45:24) So that's one of the things where you upload a video and it'll, it'll chop up, you know, different little short segments clips of a minute or less or however you program it. (45:32) And it'll create the captions for you as well.

(45:34) All that kind of stuff. (45:35) Another one is a cap cut, which some people might be used to using on their mobile phone. (45:40) Opus tends to be more of a desktop thing for me anyways.

(45:43) Those are two that makes the process easy. (45:46) Now, what's funny about that is, um, again, this gets back into automation. (45:49) So I've been using Opus clips for, I don't know, six months and I mean, I hope they're not listening, but I mean, I'm not thrilled with the output.

(45:57) Uh, there's still editing that has to take place.

Mike Mills

(45:59) Yes. (46:00) I use it too. (46:01) So I'm familiar.

Geoff Zimpfer

(46:02) So can you relate? (46:03) It's like some of the outputs.

Mike Mills

(46:05) Well, I will say, I mean, you've been on it for six months. (46:07) I'm impressed. (46:08) Cause I actually, right when it came out, and I don't remember if it was eight or 12 months ago, it came out and I started using it because they do have a free trial, which is awesome because you can experiment with it.

(46:17) Um, and it was bad, but you know, especially when you have to, if it's just you talking, it's not terrible. (46:24) But when you had two people and them recognizing that there's two voices in Windica, it wasn't good and required even more editing. (46:31) And so it was bad.

(46:32) But then fast forward a couple of months ago, I found it again, long story behind that, but it's funny when, um, I found it again and it's today, it's much, much better. (46:44) And now they've added features into where if they give you a clip, you can actually go back into that editing and you can pull up the entire script and go back and add a part of that clip based on the text. (46:56) So if I referenced something and then needed, I like, you know, cause I do this a lot, I'll start it down a road and then, you know, chase a squirrel for five minutes and then come back to it.

(47:06) Well, if I do that, then I can go in there and find that segment and add that clip in automatically. (47:11) And it doesn't take very long to do that. (47:14) Um, and now they're adding in AI to where they're giving you a B reels that you can have on there.

(47:19) Um, you know, where it's, it's a picture of, like I did a story about target and my last, uh, target cutting prices. (47:24) And so I did a clip with that. (47:26) I just posted on social media today and it's got little, you know, a B reel of like the grocery store aisle.

(47:30) I didn't go have to, I didn't have to search for it. (47:32) It just was already there. (47:33) Took two seconds for them to do it.

(47:35) Um, now I do take it into CapCut and add a few other, uh, uh, branding, you know, pieces to it to kind of make it my own. (47:43) But, but I think a lot of this video editing stuff is very much like once you get a system or a process in place to do it, it doesn't take as much time. (47:52) Now, obviously if you can hire somebody, right, go for it.

(47:55) But, uh, but if you're doing it yourself, I think, you know, it's all about creating a system and a process to, to use these tools.

Geoff Zimpfer

(48:01) Yeah. (48:02) I think the short form video is easy place to start, right? (48:05) Uh, because typically a minute or less, uh, and you can, it's very easy to get scale.

(48:10) And I think that's one of the biggest hurdles people need to get through is, is get comfortable creating, like you said, a system, get in the habit of creating. (48:17) Like just a few minutes ago, I had to remember to take a picture of us on a screenshot because I'm going to post that. (48:21) Right.

Mike Mills

(48:22) Yeah.

Geoff Zimpfer

(48:23) Yeah. (48:23) Yeah. (48:23) I believe it took me a long time to remember to frigging do that.

(48:27) Um, but uh, yeah. (48:28) So, so Opus, I think, yeah, yeah. (48:30) As you said, it's keep, keeps getting better and better, which is great.

(48:33) So try that out. (48:33) Try CapCut.

Mike Mills

(48:34) There's one called munch I think as well too, that's out there. (48:38) Uh, Simrush. (48:39) Oh, actually Simrush might be SEO, but um there's a ton of AI tools out there for video editing these days.

Geoff Zimpfer

(48:45) Yeah. (48:45) I mean, so that's where I would start. (48:47) Um, something like that.

(48:48) And if you can afford an editor, by the way, that can be very cheap on like fiverr.com. (48:53) You can find somebody who can edit. (48:55) Um, I think I was getting videos done for like 30 bucks a video.

(48:58) Yeah. (48:59) Um, and that was a long form edit with like three shorts cut out of that long form.

Mike Mills

(49:04) Oh wow. (49:05) So they took the long form and then gave you three shorts and it was 30 bucks.

Geoff Zimpfer

(49:08) Uh huh.

Mike Mills

(49:08) Well, that's pretty good. (49:09) Yeah. (49:10) The ones that have, they're like, we'll charge you $25 per short.

(49:13) And I'm like, eh, I don't know if that's going to be worth it.

Geoff Zimpfer

(49:15) No, there's some good deals out there. (49:16) But in the beginning for most people, just start editing your own. (49:20) I mean, I want, I want to get you out of editing as soon as possible though.

(49:23) I've always believed that you should not be into editing. (49:27) You should be into creating and outsourcing or delegating that to sell. (49:30) I personally just recently had my, I've hired my son to do some editing.

Mike Mills

(49:34) So I tried to hire my daughter. (49:35) She wasn't going for it. (49:36) I'm hoping down the road I can convince her.

(49:39) She's still 16. (49:40) Way more important things to do.

Geoff Zimpfer

(49:42) Right, right. (49:43) Well, my son needs money.

Mike Mills

(49:44) Yeah, exactly. (49:45) Exactly. (49:46) Yeah.

(49:46) It's the editing part. (49:48) I, you know, I am a big believer in outsourcing and delegating. (49:53) However, I will put a caveat on it and say that in order for you to understand the value of what you're paying for, you need to understand the work and time that it goes into doing it.

(50:04) And so having, at least if you understand the concept of it, cause you know, I've used like final cut pro, which is like a Apple software for editing. (50:11) There's a Adobe premiere, I think is what it's called, that you can use and that's like high level detailed editing with a lot of pieces to it. (50:20) But that's a lot of work.

(50:21) It takes a lot of time, but it wasn't until after I'd done that a few times where I was like, all right, I know how to do it, but it's not something I want to spend four hours working on because that video is not worth four hours of my time when I could focus on other things and other lead generating activities around it.

Geoff Zimpfer

(50:37) Yeah.

Mike Mills

(50:38) Are you guys incorporating, you know, these days AI is taking over the world. (50:43) So are y'all, are y'all having much incorporation with that? (50:47) How, how deep down the rabbit hole are you guys going with that?

Geoff Zimpfer

(50:51) Always a student. (50:54) And me personally, I'm not one to go all in on anything. (51:01) I'm cautiously optimistic if you will.

(51:04) Meaning I think there's definitely very strong use cases for AI. (51:08) I've already been using it for me to create content, to create sales letters, to create emails, to create, you know, a bunch of different things. (51:15) Um, however, I don't think it is the easy button.

(51:20) Uh, and it's not intended to, it's just intended to like, depending upon the use case, right? (51:26) It's like, it's a good starting point perhaps to, to, to launch, to get some ideas flowing. (51:31) Or like for instance, I have had recently this past week, I've had to generate a couple of logos.

(51:36) Um, yet it still requires further human involvement, right? (51:41) To continue to edit it for out. (51:43) But it is so far for me, a big time-saver.

(51:45) We've definitely been coaching and teaching agents how to use JetDBT to create content. (51:49) So it's great for, you know, creating social media posts and different things around that. (51:54) But, but once again, the thing we always teach is always edit the output because it's becoming very obvious.

(52:02) What is AI generated content?

Mike Mills

(52:04) Yes.

Geoff Zimpfer

(52:05) And you can tell by reading it because it uses the same words over and over again. (52:08) So just like the case of creating videos and YouTube, et cetera, um, it's going to require continual fine tuning, you know, softening of the edges and things like that. (52:20) The thing will continue to get better and it'll quote unquote kind of maybe learn you over time.

(52:25) And there's various ways you can kind of coach GPT to do that. (52:27) Um, but no, I'm a huge fan of it. (52:29) Um, used in the right way.

Mike Mills

(52:32) Right. (52:33) Right. (52:34) Um, I do want to get your opinion.

(52:36) We're, uh, we've almost blown through our hour here. (52:38) So it's things gone by fast. (52:40) Um, I want to get your thoughts because you've been in the business for so long.

(52:43) Um, and this is something I pretty much ask everybody these days, uh, with all the NAR stuff going on. (52:48) So with the, with the changes that are coming, uh, with, you know, how agents can represent commissions online and all these buyer rep agreements. (52:56) And there was a story, uh, that came out the other day that there's a, um, brokerage in, I can't remember the name in Florida.

(53:03) I think that they've gone to, if you're listening or a buyer's agent, it's a $10,000 flat and that's it. (53:09) Um, you know, there's all kinds of different versions of what we're going to see. (53:12) And I think over time the market will adjust and start to see how those buyer agents are rep.

(53:16) But what do you think this is going to do for the industry as a whole? (53:21) Is it a positive thing? (53:22) A negative thing?

(53:23) Is it, you know, w where, where does this go and how does it impact everybody's daily lives?

Geoff Zimpfer

(53:31) Yeah. (53:31) Another great question. (53:33) Um, I'm trying to think, how do I want to answer that?

(53:38) Yeah. (53:38) Right. (53:39) Because I'm cognizant of the audience.

(53:41) Cause, cause look, there's, there's various responses to this out there.

Mike Mills

(53:45) As you know, I like the truth. (53:46) That's what I like, regardless of if it hurts somebody's feelings. (53:49) Cause I look, I have my own opinions on it and I've said it multiple times.

(53:52) Anybody that's listened to listen to me on here. (53:54) So I'm, I'm curious because you know, you're in this business for 25 years and you see the mortgage side, you see the real estate side, you talk to people from all walks of life, carrying high levels of, of influence in the industry. (54:05) And I know that everybody has a thought and is concerned about it.

(54:10) And there's some from nothing's going to change all the way to the whole world's going to change. (54:14) And the answer is, it's probably somewhere in the middle and nobody really knows. (54:17) So at this point it's just, it's just conjecture.

Geoff Zimpfer

(54:20) Yeah, exactly. (54:21) Um, all right. (54:23) So, you know, I think the first, the first way to answer this is that it comes down to, it's not what happens is how we respond that matters.

(54:29) Right. (54:30) And so what I'm seeing is three different types of responses. (54:34) One confusion lacking a plan to complain or resisting change.

(54:39) And then three is confident, clear on their value. (54:42) Um, you got to decide which camp you are going to choose to be in. (54:45) Um, I think the other takeaway is that the fundamentals don't change.

(54:49) Like there's, there's so much noise and everything around this whole thing. (54:52) And it's just like, it comes down to still, what we said earlier is the fundamentals of like helping people solve problems and those that can articulate how they do that. (55:00) And the value that they provide will always do well in any market.

(55:04) I think that's the missing link as was pointed out earlier by Tanya is that, you know, we've lost those muscles because of the greatest market in real estate and who forever that it didn't take any skills, I'm sorry, to succeed in the market. (55:19) It didn't, you needed a license. (55:21) That was it.

(55:22) And you needed to stand in front of the wave of business that came at you and you did well. (55:26) Well, guess what? (55:27) You are not as good as your success showed during the time that we had.

(55:32) And you're not as bad as your, as your lack of results is showing right now either. (55:36) Yeah. (55:37) The question is how are you going to show up and how are you going to respond?

(55:40) Um, you know, I interviewed a Brian Barrero, who's the president and co-founder of thousand watt consulting, which if you don't follow them, you definitely should. (55:48) They have a newsletter called the dose. (55:49) It's very educational with some research where I get a lot of my data from on the consumer sentiment.

(55:55) Um, Brian's response was this is going to be the summer of chaos and that he does not think a lot of agents are going to adapt well to the requirements of the buyer broker agreement coming in August. (56:06) And therefore we will see in his words, tens of thousands of real estate agents, if not hundreds of thousands leave. (56:14) Um, however, good news.

(56:18) If you're a mortgage professional, that means you'll be getting more referrals from less agents. (56:25) Right. (56:25) So, right.

(56:26) So ability to manage that more. (56:28) And then good news if you're a real estate agent, if you're one of those agents who's confident and knows their value, knows how to show up less competition, less noise, easier to articulate why choosing to hire you as a real estate agent makes sense because there's a lot of bad examples out there. (56:42) Um, um, yeah, it's going to be crazy because we're already seeing sellers.

(56:48) And again, I'm seeing every, all kinds of things across the board. (56:51) Some States already have buyer broker agreements, but they didn't require a compensation to be put in there. (56:55) Now they're going to, um, I'm seeing on some of the, uh, you know, the, uh, what do you call it?

(57:00) The, the feeds out there, Facebook groups and all that, where some agents are like, you know, business as usual seller agreed to pay the buyer agent, you know, 2% or whatever this, and then you're seeing some stories where they're like, Nope. (57:12) Sellers putting his feet in the ground, not willing to pay agent anything. (57:17) This is going to be like similar to Frank Dodd, you know, where we went through that 2008, 10, et cetera.

(57:22) And we had to make a lot of adjustments and then things settled back to a new normal. (57:25) We're going to settle back to a new normal. (57:27) I do think big picture though.

(57:30) Ultimately, I do think it is a good thing for the consumer for transparency and to separate the compensation uncoupling of the compensation. (57:41) Um, and so that's forcing agents to get better at their value proposition. (57:47) Um, and it's also probably a better deal for a seller.

(57:53) Oh, and the other thing Brian said, Brian Burrow, and I go to, I, you know, this is why I love interviewing people because he knows more than I do. (57:59) Brian did say he would, he, he expects a, a slight or a marginal compression on buyer agent compensation. (58:10) Right.

(58:11) Yeah. (58:11) We're going to see the agents compensation come down.

Mike Mills

(58:14) Yeah. (58:14) The, (58:15) the only thing I would push back a little bit on that is just that I do think (58:18) it's going to be tougher on the consumer, um, (58:22) because there was this pay it forward model that we've been living in for the (58:27) last a hundred years that seemed to work pretty well, you know, (58:31) as far as giving access to home home ownership, (58:33) where I as a new buyer come in someone who's got the equity and has lived in (58:38) that home and can give, pay my agent representation.

(58:41) So now I just need my down payment and my closing costs. (58:44) And there's assistance with that and whatever that if I need it, I can get there. (58:47) And I think that this change in it, my take on it is, is as we're in the market that we're in right now, which is rates at 7%, you know, not a lot of activity.

(58:59) I don't really think there's going to be much difference. (59:02) I think it's going to be pretty similar to what it's been, at least for the, for the foreseeable future. (59:06) Right.

(59:06) Mm-hmm. (59:07) Um, until that changes. (59:10) And, and when that changes is everybody wants rates to come down, me included.

(59:15) Okay. (59:16) But when that happens, we're already short on inventory, right? (59:20) We have less than, less than, you know, four months of inventory in the market across the country.

(59:24) Texas has like 3.2. All right. (59:27) And that includes new builds that aren't finished yet, by the way. (59:29) So can't even move into some of those homes.

(59:31) Um, once the rates get to, I mean, you could get to the low sixes. (59:35) You, and as soon as that rate has a five in front of it, that's when all those people that have been sitting on the sidelines with their three and 4% interest are going to come back in and say, okay, now I'm ready to move because I've been waiting to move until this happened. (59:46) And then you're going to see prices escalate again.

(59:49) Cause we have, it's been the slowest real estate market in 40 years and prices have still gone up 4% or a five and a half percent or whatever it is all across the country. (59:58) So once that occurs, that's when the buyer really gets hit because at that point the seller is in control again. (1:00:06) Now they've got two and three offers on their property because rates are at a reasonable level that people are okay with.

(1:00:11) And now they're getting with the lack of inventory, they're getting offers. (1:00:14) And now a buyer that comes in and says, Hey, I need you to pay my agent. (1:00:18) Okay.

(1:00:19) The seller's like, I'm not going to do that because I don't have to, because I'm not going to pay title either. (1:00:24) And I'm not going to give you any closings concessions. (1:00:26) And I may not even pay for a home warranty, you know, whatever the case may be.

(1:00:29) Like that's when the shift occurs. (1:00:31) And that's when I think we start to really feel the brunt of this being that being the buyers. (1:00:37) Sellers are great.

(1:00:38) They're going to make out like bandits, um, to some extent until they go buy again. (1:00:41) But, um, and it'll be, (1:00:43) in my opinion, the way it looks right now, (1:00:45) I think having a buyer's agent in say five years, (1:00:49) when we look back will be somewhat of a luxury because if I sell my house and (1:00:53) I've made a hundred thousand dollars or, you know, have that equity there, (1:00:56) paying a buyer agent, you know, 10 grand or five or whatever it is to help me (1:01:00) find a house so I don't have to mess with it is going to be more than worth it. (1:01:03) Right.

(1:01:04) But if I'm a first time home buyer or my cash position is low or whatever the case may be, which is affecting a lot of people, then I'm not going to have a lot of options. (1:01:13) And then I'm going to be back like we said in the very beginning of that second person in your, in your survey that said, well, it's easier just to go to the listing agent because they're already there. (1:01:22) That's what's going to happen.

(1:01:23) And then again, the listing agent represents the seller and is, is their fiduciary responsibility. (1:01:29) They're not there to represent the buyer. (1:01:31) And I think that's ultimately where, you know, where buyers get hurt.

Geoff Zimpfer

(1:01:34) Yeah.

Mike Mills

(1:01:35) So to be here, it's, it, those people are going to buy and sell homes forever. (1:01:38) It's not going away, but how it's done and who gets impacted and who gets benefits and who doesn't, that's what still remains to be seen. (1:01:45) But you know, that's just my, my two cents on it essentially.

Geoff Zimpfer

(1:01:48) Yeah. (1:01:49) I think it's like you said, there's a lot of variables in that are yet to be played out. (1:01:53) I mean, some States don't allow dual agency, right?

(1:01:55) So and then there's going to be new business models that sprout up, which is like you said, flat fee. (1:01:59) I'm already seeing a, some of them, um, flat fee, uh, buyer brokerage, and all they do is work with buyers. (1:02:05) Right.

(1:02:05) And so, but then again, you know, with financing, uh, for the lenders, you know, you can add the, uh, buyer's agent composition to the purchase price. (1:02:13) And that's where you back to you, um, being a savvy fiscally literate person can use tools like mortgage catcher, MBS highway to represent like, what does that mean? (1:02:24) If you add 10 grand to the purchase price, you think that blows up your payment?

(1:02:28) No, it actually doesn't. (1:02:29) I can show you how it's only an X, 20, 30, whatever dollars a month, but we're playing the long game, five years of equity. (1:02:35) What do you got?

(1:02:35) So I think there's, this is just to put a cap on this. (1:02:38) Seeing as you mentioned, I love this topic of the, um, you know, the NAR settlement to me, this is the greatest opportunity I have seen in the last probably five, maybe 10 years for the originator to become such an integral part of the agents process on the lifting side and the buy side as well.

Mike Mills

(1:02:58) No, I would agree. (1:02:59) Agree. (1:02:59) A hundred percent.

(1:03:00) Um, well, that's a great place to end this. (1:03:02) Um, I don't want to be, you know, I want to be very cognizant of your time. (1:03:05) You're a busy guy.

(1:03:05) I got a lot going on. (1:03:06) So I can't appreciate, or I can't thank you enough for being here and walking through some of this stuff with us. (1:03:11) Um, you know, if you guys haven't checked out his book, please do.

(1:03:14) Um, we got, we got multiple books, uh, obviously, but um, and, and tell everybody, uh, how to reach you about your program. (1:03:22) Um, you know, where they can find you and what, um, you know, what you services you guys offer.

Geoff Zimpfer

(1:03:26) I think the simplest thing to do is, uh, if you like what you've heard today and you want, you're curious about, you know, more of these types of conversations, check out the podcast, go to mortgage marketing radio, you know, look it up on Spotify, uh, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts. (1:03:40) That's why I suggest you go first tune in there and enjoy the show. (1:03:43) Mike, great job by the way.

(1:03:45) And thank you so much for having me.

Mike Mills

(1:03:46) No, thanks, man. (1:03:47) It was, it was my pleasure. (1:03:48) Well, listen, we'll definitely have to do this again because I think we, I wanted to get to so many things and an hour goes by so fast.

(1:03:54) And I just want to touch on a few little pieces, but there's so much depth to all this. (1:03:58) And you know, obviously you guys have created an entire business around this and there's so much to it, um, that it's a great resource. (1:04:03) And you know, I think anybody that wants to get deeper into this really needs to check that all out.

(1:04:07) So I hope everybody has a great weekend. (1:04:09) It's storming like crazy here in Texas. (1:04:12) If your trees haven't fallen down, you know, uh, consider yourself lucky.

(1:04:15) If you still got power and you can see this, you're doing well too. (1:04:18) Um, I'll be back on Tuesday with another market update and, uh, I hope everybody has a great week and we'll see you next time.