Real Estate Note Buying: How to Generate Passive Income with Scott Carson

Mike Mills

(0:12) Well, what is up, Americans online? (0:16) So pop quiz time. (0:17) Do you know what industry makes the most money with the least amount of time involved in doing so?

(0:23) And just a hint, it's actually not real estate. (0:26) Nope. (0:26) It is everyone's favorite industry in the world, banking.

(0:29) Yes, those slimy little bankers. (0:31) And by the way, I'm a loan officer, not necessarily a banker, so it's not particularly me. (0:35) But banks are an interest on every single loan and debt that you take out.

(0:39) Then they get to sit back and wait for the mailbox money to arrive in. (0:43) Well, what if I told you that you could be a banker and collect mailbox money the exact same way, and it doesn't take as much money as you might think to do so? (0:51) And right now, with interest at record high levels, it's not a bad place to put your money.

(0:56) Well, today we're going to show you exactly how to do it. (0:58) You've tuned into the Texas Real Estate and Finance podcast, and I'm your host, Mike Mills, a North Texas mortgage banker with Geneva Financial. (1:06) And while you can find me here almost every Thursday talking to experts to help you expand your real estate empire, when I'm not doing this, I'm helping your clients buy and refinance their homes.

(1:14) We do construction loans, bank statement loans, DSCR investment loans, I-10 loans, rehab loans, and everything in between. (1:21) So if you have someone that needs some help getting money for their next great real estate investment, please give me a call. (1:26) We'd love to help you out and give, or give me a call to learn about all those loans that I just told you about if you're not familiar with them.

(1:32) I'm here to help any way that I possibly can. (1:35) So today's episode is all about how you as an individual can put excess cash that you have to use and make money work for you instead of you working for that money. (1:44) That is the game, ultimately.

(1:46) So stop trading your time for money and start putting cash into good use. (1:50) And if you're listening right now, you're going to be one step closer to making that happen. (1:53) But before we get rolling, please help your friendly neighborhood podcaster out if today's episode unlocks ideas and inspiration for you to take that first step towards financial freedom, then hit that like button, tell a friend, and drop me a comment.

(2:07) I'd love to hear what you guys think and how we can keep bringing you great insight from many people way smarter than me in and around real estate. (2:14) I'm here doing this each week for you guys and would love to hear your opinions, even if you think I should just shut up and stop talking for a while because I already hear that around my house every single day, so I'm pretty much used to it. (2:23) So do me a solid and LSCS, like, subscribe, comment, and share.

(2:27) I would greatly appreciate it. (2:29) Now, on today's episode, we have a great guest. (2:31) He's an investor, an entrepreneur, a marketer, a nationally syndicated podcast host, and the owner and managing member of WeCloseNotes.com, an Austin-based defaulted note buying company that finds underperforming notes on residential and commercial properties and purchases those notes for his and his clients' portfolios. (2:49) And he's here today to tell us how the game works. (2:51) So please welcome Scott Carson to the podcast. (2:54) Hey, Scott.

Scott Carson

(2:54) Hey, what's going on, Mike? (2:55) Glad to be here. (2:56) Honored as always, man.

(2:58) Just I'm here to deliver some value to your audience today.

Mike Mills

(3:01) Well, I appreciate it, man. (3:02) I know that you're a busy guy. (3:04) You've got a lot of balls in the air, as they say.

(3:06) So I appreciate you taking a little bit of time out of your day to share your insight with us. (3:11) Now, before we get into kind of your backstory a little bit, I want to get right into this. (3:14) So I want you to tell everybody, number one, what is note buying?

(3:17) OK, where do you find these notes and kind of how does it work? (3:20) And then and then at the end of that, I want you to kind of give us an idea of what the actual cost is for like an individual that wants to get into it. (3:28) How much are we talking about on the minimum level to have an outlay for?

Scott Carson

(3:31) Yeah, no problem. (3:33) When people think of note investing, they often think of primarily like, oh, I'm going to own or finance a property to somebody. (3:40) It's what a lot of people think.

(3:42) Like, oh, I don't want to own or finance. (3:44) I want to sell a property. (3:45) Well, owner financing is one aspect.

(3:47) That's origination. (3:48) I mean, you could do that all day long. (3:50) If you have a property, you have a hard time selling it or things.

(3:53) Very common. (3:53) There's another niche of it that I focus on, and that is buying notes, buying mortgages. (3:59) Now, I don't buy a lot of owner finance notes.

(4:02) There's people out there that do that. (4:04) But I actually go a little further up the food chain. (4:06) I buy debt.

(4:07) I buy mortgages on residential commercial properties, direct from banks, lenders, hard money lenders, any type of mortgage company out there that has stuff on their books they're looking to get rid of. (4:19) We buy this stuff. (4:21) And I've been doing that since 2008.

(4:23) And that's what my niche is, is actually going direct to banks, hedge funds, lenders, and taking a look at their problem children, their naughty notes, as I like to say, where people aren't paying, whether it's six months or six years or beyond that, that they're looking to get those off their books. (4:40) And we'll buy that debt, but usually at a very significant discount of what's owed. (4:46) And then we make our money by either A, going back to the borrower.

(4:50) And since we bought it at a discount, we can work out some sort of negotiation, loan modification, forbearance plan to keep them in their house, which is what we'd like to do 70% of the time. (5:00) The other 30% of the time is we some sort of, if the borrower won't play ball with us or they've already moved on and won't respond, then we have the right, because we are now the bank. (5:07) We're those sleazy bankers, as you mentioned in the intro.

Mike Mills

(5:10) Hey, listen, I am too, basically.

Scott Carson

(5:12) You are. (5:12) You are, exactly. (5:13) But we have the right then to foreclose.

(5:16) We'll give them cash for keys for them to get the property and walk away from. (5:19) And like I said, we've, over the last almost 16 plus years, been doing this since 2008, bought over a billion dollars in debt, constantly seen. (5:28) So I mean, literally just 30 minutes before we jumped on here, I got a tape of 188 non-performing first liens in 20 different states that I can cherry pick.

(5:38) And most people think, they've heard this a little bit. (5:41) I mean, if you're a fan of movies, the big short kind of talks a little about where they're buying debt. (5:46) I'm kind of like Christian Bale's character in there, listening to rock and roll and drumming out my desk every day, looking at spreadsheets.

(5:53) But most people thought you used to have the $5, $10 million, because you only buy like a big portfolio or pool. (5:59) That's not the case. (6:00) There's a lot of lenders out there that want to sell stuff, and they understand they have to sell it off in individual notes.

(6:07) And so you can buy.

Mike Mills

(6:08) So tell me if I'm right on this, and I'm not sure how this would work. (6:11) But I see how it could make sense, I think, where you have a bank. (6:15) I'm a big hedge fund, and I've got a handful of loans that are just not performing very well.

(6:20) And I want to either foreclose, get rid of them. (6:22) I got to do something about those loans, right? (6:24) And a lot of times, the process of foreclosing on somebody or the process of collecting is very laborious.

(6:31) It takes time. (6:32) It takes money. (6:33) It takes manpower.

(6:34) It takes people to do that, because you got to contact these people on a regular basis and stay with them. (6:39) You got to maybe go to their house. (6:40) I mean, you got to do all kinds of stuff to get that money.

(6:42) And so if I'm a billion-dollar hedge fund or a billion-dollar bank, and maybe it's a $200,000 or $300,000 loan that's a part of a bigger portfolio, how much of my time and effort do I really want to spend chasing down that money? (6:57) And if I can get half of that money back, and then now I've got freed up capital to (7:01) go do something else with it, then that could be attractive to me to sell that off to somebody (7:06) else like you, who would then have the process and the systems in place to be able to track (7:12) down the collection side of it or go through the foreclosure process a little bit smoother (7:16) and faster, because it makes more sense for a smaller guy, because you're more agile.

(7:20) Is that kind of how it works?

Scott Carson

(7:21) Yes, on the back end of that. (7:23) Most of your large, most lenders will always have a servicing company, whether they're servicing the mortgage in-house, or they'll have a third-party servicing company that they're paying $90 a month plus fees for non-performing or $25 a month to collect on the performing side. (7:39) And so, yeah, they'll have third parties.

(7:42) I've got third-party servicers. (7:44) That's one thing about buying debt. (7:46) You have to be a licensed debt collector in most states to do that, or have a servicing company that's licensed in a state to collect that working on your behalf.

(7:54) That's the big licensing requirement. (7:56) Most of the states, there's a few states that will still want you to be an individual mortgage broker. (8:00) Texas, you actually don't need to have a mortgage servicing license, although I do not recommend that.

Mike Mills

(8:06) I think if you- Hey, we're the Wild West, baby. (8:08) We can do whatever we want.

Scott Carson

(8:09) Well, but we do everything fast in Texas, fast highways, fast foreclosures, and fast executions. (8:15) You know what I mean? (8:15) Yes.

(8:17) But it's smart to have a third-party do it for you, because then they're keeping track of the payment history. (8:23) They're tracking everything in the spreadsheets. (8:24) They're sending out the freaking Dodd-Frank compliant documents that you got to have.

Mike Mills

(8:27) That's what they do. (8:28) They specialize in that, so let them know you're going.

Scott Carson

(8:30) Exactly. (8:31) And whether you've got one or 1,000 notes, there's different servicers that will cater to you, whether you're a newer guy, or a small guy, or a bigger guy. (8:39) But yeah, going back to your thing, these lenders out there, these big banks, let's just use an example, like Bank of America, the Death Star out there.

Mike Mills

(8:48) They'll buy- I'm putting Chase in the Death Star category, and then we're going to put Bank of America as one of the Galactic Empire thing. (8:57) You know what- Amy Diamond's becoming Darth Vader, the Emperor, real quick.

Scott Carson

(9:00) Yeah, he says one thing and does another on the other side of his mouth a lot of cases. (9:04) But the big five, Bank of America, Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, Indiamac, or One West now, those guys, you're not going to buy anything from them. (9:11) I mean, they're going to only sell them $50 million tranches, or $100 million tranches.

(9:16) So they'll buy a portfolio from- I'll give you an example. (9:19) Bank of America bought all Countrywide stuff years ago at $0.20 of the dollar, okay? (9:23) Yes.

(9:24) Well, if they worked it out and got those people back on track, they waited around a year or two years, they could sell that note now that the borrower's back on track paying as a performing note.

Mike Mills

(9:35) Yeah.

Scott Carson

(9:35) They bought it at $0.20, sell it at $0.80 of the dollar, back to somebody else in the market. (9:39) So not only do they get cash flow, but they got a huge upside on that aspect of the increase from 20% of what was owed to 80% of what was owed.

Mike Mills

(9:49) And they can do something like that because they have so much capital that if they got to wait something out for a year to get it back to performing to be able to do that, they can, right?

Scott Carson

(9:57) Yeah. (9:57) I mean, we do that on a smaller scale. (9:59) We'll buy the numbers now, we'll buy at 50, 60 cents of a dollar.

(10:03) We'll get the bar back on track, have them make 12 months of on-time payments, bring a couple of months on the front end for some skin in the game. (10:11) And then after 12 months of on-time payments, now we can turn around and either sell it back to Wall Street or back to individual investors or to mortgage funds at 80, 85, 90 cents on the dollar. (10:22) So we just made 20, 35 plus the cash flow plus the down payment.

(10:25) Now, if it's a good yield, we'll hold it for cash flow for an extended period of time. (10:30) It depends on what our underlying money costs are with either the fund that we're using with our own funds or somebody else's fund. (10:39) And then if they don't pay, well, that asset is worth 200 grand.

(10:44) They owe 225, we paid 50 cents, we paid 125 for it roughly. (10:49) If we foreclose, we're going to be sitting in a good position because there's $70,000, $75,000 in equity that we technically made between what it was owed and what we paid for the money.

Mike Mills

(10:58) Well, and especially right now, man, because I would imagine like with the amount of equity that Americans are sitting on in their home and look, let's be very clear, okay? (11:06) When you're doing this stuff, you're doing it, somebody that's having financial issues for whatever reason. (11:11) So it's not, I don't want to make it to sound like that this is all about money.

(11:15) I mean, it is, but to a certain extent, obviously there are human beings on the other side of this. (11:19) But that being said, Americans have a ton of equity these days. (11:23) I mean, it is a massive amount because we've had such a great amount of appreciation over the last couple of years that it's really exploded as far as equity is concerned.

(11:31) So if there are people out there struggling with these notes that maybe they don't owe as much compared to what the house's value is. (11:40) I mean, there's a lot of margin to be made there because there's so much equity right now that it would seem like it's a pretty good spot to be in if you have the funds to be able to go around and find these. (11:52) Well, and that's the big thing is we're the bank.

Scott Carson

(11:54) The equity doesn't necessarily belong to us. (11:56) It belongs to a homeowner in a lot of cases. (11:58) So we're not bidding off the value, although that is important.

(12:02) Sure.

Mike Mills

(12:02) We're only bidding off of what's owed and that might be- Once you have to foreclose and now you've got this asset, you know.

Scott Carson

(12:08) And that's in every market you got to know because like here in Texas, if you're, let's say it's worth $300, they only owe $200 payoff. (12:17) Well, we would probably pay $150 for that. (12:20) Right.

(12:20) Well, our highest bid, the auction will be $200. (12:22) So it sells for $250. (12:23) We only get the $200.

(12:24) That other $50 is going to go back to the homeowner. (12:26) And about 70% of the time, we actually don't want to foreclose. (12:30) We actually make a bigger yield by keeping people in their houses.

(12:35) Yeah, exactly. (12:36) Well, I call it wires. (12:37) We don't get checks.

(12:38) We get wire transfers in on the 15th.

Mike Mills

(12:40) I guess where I'm operating, I was born in the 90s or I mean, excuse me, the 70s. (12:45) So I'm sure- Same here, buddy. (12:46) Yeah.

(12:47) Yeah. (12:47) We're operating in a different world these days. (12:49) But yes.

Scott Carson

(12:50) But these banks there, like the list I got in just a few minutes ago, 188 notes, 85 of them are vacant. (12:58) We know that the bar, vacant or deceased. (13:00) Well, that bar is probably not going to get back on track.

(13:02) Right. (13:03) You know, but we're going to have to foreclose or work with them to do like a cash or keys or deetles, depending on what state it's in. (13:09) Some of these were in Florida.

(13:10) Well, that's about an 18-month foreclosure timeframe. (13:12) So we're going to bid more aggressive or cheaper on that area versus Texas, which is only like a 21-day foreclosure.

Mike Mills

(13:20) So- 21 days in Texas? (13:21) I didn't know that.

Scott Carson

(13:22) Oh, it's fast, baby. (13:23) I mean, if you don't file the foreclosure notice at the county 21 days prior to the next first Tuesday of the month, you've got to wait till the following month. (13:33) Wow.

(13:33) So and an interesting note, an update just recently here in Travis County. (13:36) Travis County is the first county here in Texas where the tax foreclosures are no longer going to be done on the county steps. (13:43) They're going to be actually done online like a lot of other states are doing here in Travis.

(13:46) Oh, wow. (13:48) Earlier this week.

Mike Mills

(13:49) So now you don't have to physically go down to the county anymore and bid like you're at the cattle, the cattle.

Scott Carson

(13:54) You don't have to walk in with a bag full of cashier's checks. (13:57) You can do it all online.

Mike Mills

(13:58) It's so crazy. (13:59) It's just, it's amazing to me. (14:01) We're literally in 2024 and you're like, and today we just got this.

(14:05) It's like, what, how, why does this take? (14:08) So, I mean, it's all regulation. (14:08) I get it, but it's just insane.

Scott Carson

(14:10) Yeah. (14:10) I was in Florida. (14:11) God's waiting room has been doing it for years.

Mike Mills

(14:15) Well, okay. (14:16) So, so I think I have a pretty good idea of how this works. (14:18) I mean, it makes a ton of sense, you know, obviously.

(14:21) So, so let me ask you, you know, you've been doing this for a very long time and you don't have to give away all your secrets, but you know, a few of them where, how do you, how do you find this stuff? (14:30) I mean, obviously you're establishing relationships with banks and you've been doing this over the years and investors, but where do you, you know, do you just have, have built up a huge network over the last 20 years? (14:38) Like how do you have access and know where these notes are?

Scott Carson

(14:41) So that's a really great question. (14:43) Yeah. (14:43) We used to do a lot of down for dollars, 50 to a hundred phone calls a day and asked to get to this.

(14:48) There's basically the four names of specific departments inside of banks, hedge funds, insurance companies that handle debt sales or note sales. (14:56) Okay. (14:56) If you're dealing with like bigger banks, they're going to be like special assets department or their secondary marketing department.

(15:03) Okay. (15:04) If you're dealing with a regional bank, a smaller bank, like I'll say like an example, like IBC here in Texas, international bank of commerce, you would call and ask to speak to their chief credit risk officer. (15:15) All right.

(15:16) If you're looking at maybe like an insurance company, like MetLife or something like that, they would have something called the whole loan trader. (15:23) Now you can literally go to LinkedIn and type in these four names, special asset manager, secondary marketing manager, chief credit risk officer, whole loan trader. (15:32) And you'll see people that pop up.

(15:34) These are the people that you reach out to on a regular basis. (15:37) And so that's what we teach. (15:38) Like literally go to LinkedIn, start typing in, doing searches and start reaching out to them.

(15:43) Hey, I think you're the right person who handles your note sales. (15:46) Do you have any non-performing in your books that you're looking to get rid of? (15:49) And you'll be surprised that some will have some, some won't.

(15:53) And it's just a matter of following up with people on a drip marketing campaign. (15:56) I mean, that's, what's different about kind of what we do is a real estate investment side of things. (16:02) And I come from before the fix and flip side of that stuff where you did a lot of direct mail and all that stuff and banded signs.

(16:07) That's great. (16:08) That's just the 20th century. (16:10) We're in the 21st century.

(16:11) You got to start marketing like as a 21st century. (16:13) So we do everything with basically like LinkedIn and then emails. (16:17) Just hey, dropping an email once a month.

(16:19) What do you have in your books? (16:21) And what I love about this facet, which is different than most, is that most investors, you're chasing like foreclosure lists or stuff. (16:28) It's like one distressed borrower, one property.

(16:32) Well, we don't do that. (16:33) I don't talk to borrowers who are in trouble on the front end. (16:35) It's always dealing with the banks.

(16:36) The banks then will send me their list that may be one note. (16:39) It may be five notes. (16:40) It may be 900 notes every month that I can literally cherry pick.

(16:44) And so it allows for us to have a much higher rate of deal flow because we're getting them from these sources on a regular basis. (16:53) And it also leads to higher yields on our returns because we're buying them at cheaper than what most people are buying foreclosures and stuff right now too.

Mike Mills

(17:01) So you're getting, so essentially what you're doing and what you have done, which is why this stuff, it takes a time to build is you've established these relationships. (17:08) And now because you've reached out to so many different banks and entities, they basically put you on their list essentially that says every time, every month, once a month, once a week, whatever they send out, we've got these lists call us. (17:19) It's really like wholesaling notes.

(17:22) I mean, that's what it is, right?

Scott Carson

(17:22) You're just- Yeah, exactly. (17:24) Wholesale is kind of a dirty word a lot of times, but yeah, we buy for our own portfolio. (17:28) We don't want to be called a joker broker.

(17:30) And so banks and sellers want to deal with direct buyers. (17:34) They don't want to send it out to somebody and then it gets blasted out to 30 people.

Mike Mills

(17:38) Oh, yeah, get output. (17:39) But I mean, yeah, I get what you're saying. (17:41) Y'all gotta be careful.

(17:42) They're not wholesaling it to you. (17:42) They're saying- Yeah, yeah, exactly. (17:44) Yes.

Scott Carson

(17:45) You got to sign non-disclosure agreements because you're getting literally on these spreadsheets or tapes that we call it. (17:50) You are literally like it's the borrowers exposing, opening their kimono and showing- Credit score, income, debt ratios, everything. (17:56) Not so much debt ratios, but you will see payment histories, FICO scores, information.

(18:04) And that's public record. (18:05) You don't want to be just blasting that out to everybody. (18:08) And you find out, oh, hey, you got 30 people calling you.

(18:10) I'm like, what are you talking about? (18:12) Yeah, yeah.

Mike Mills

(18:12) But that goes back to you've established the relationship and the trust with these places. (18:16) So they know you're not doing this stuff. (18:19) You wouldn't be on our list if you were.

(18:21) So we're not going to send it out to people that aren't.

Scott Carson

(18:23) Yeah. (18:23) I mean, that's the great thing about LinkedIn is people can see who the heck is calling them. (18:26) You can see profiles.

(18:28) Do they have anything to do with real estate? (18:29) I mean, you don't have to be a note broker for 30 years to have success. (18:32) You got to show note investing or some sort of real estate investing side.

(18:35) I mean, we teach this all the time. (18:37) As long as you pass the smell test, they'll send you a list because they realize you're looking at a spreadsheet around the front end and online. (18:44) You're not really going to look at the property immediately.

(18:47) You're not getting interior access. (18:49) I like it because there's a lot less risk in bidding on the front end side. (18:52) You ain't got to come up with earnest money down payments and stuff like that.

(18:55) You're making a bid. (18:56) If they accept your offering, then you start the due diligence process of reviewing the collateral file, the property value, and then evaluating the borrower to see their credit worthiness of either staying in the property and starting to pay on time or knowing that you're going to have to go that foreclosure route, a legal process to get the property back.

Mike Mills

(19:12) Well, I mean, it sounds like something that if you can do the legwork and learn how to do it, I mean, again, everybody's always looking for, how do I make money right now? (19:27) There's nothing that exists that you don't have to put a lot of time and effort into to make, especially if you're talking about a lot of money. (19:34) If you're talking about a little bit here and there, sure.

(19:36) If you're making a couple hundred bucks a day doing something, fine. (19:38) But if you're talking about the type of money that people are trying to get rich on, this isn't something that's get rich quick. (19:44) I mean, because it is- Not at all.

(19:46) ... (19:46) time, you're on the phone, you're calling people, you're putting the effort, you're trying to collect your foreclosure, I mean, you're doing all that stuff and that's a lot of work.

Scott Carson

(19:53) Well, that's where servicing comes in. (19:56) Once you buy the note, you turn it over to a servicing company and they do that heavy borrower outreach on a monthly basis for you. (20:02) So my goal is to find yields and then also raise capital from investors that want to make a 7%, 8%, 9% return on their money.

(20:09) That's great because if I buy this note and get it re-performing, it's going to turn off a 16% to 20% cash and cash return to me so that I can pay my investors and I'm still realizing the difference. (20:20) And that's what I do. (20:20) And then I keep the servicing and the legal stuff to the attorneys and the servicing- And people that do that.

(20:26) Exactly. (20:27) And then if I have to take a property back, if we don't sell it at the foreclosure option, the borrower signs over, then we'll put it with a realtor or local rehab crew to fix it up, to sell it off and go from there.

Mike Mills

(20:37) Okay. (20:37) So with your company, We Close Notes. (20:38) So you guys do obviously a couple of things, I think.

(20:42) You obviously buy and find notes yourself that you invest in. (20:45) I'm assuming you have a fund. (20:47) I would imagine you have your own money that you play with.

(20:50) I'm assuming you have a fund that you play with. (20:52) And then I hate to say play, but whatever you want to call it. (20:55) And then you also coach and teach people how to do this, right?

(20:58) Is that the three aspects of it for the most part?

Scott Carson

(21:00) Exactly. (21:01) I mean, years ago, I'm giving lists and then I cannot possibly buy every one of these things. (21:05) And so we found it much easier when I started marketing, doing videos and talking about the specific deals that we're working through.

(21:12) People often, when they see this, they think they're going to buy the house. (21:15) Like, no, no, no, you don't end up with a house. (21:16) You're the bank on this.

(21:17) You got to understand there's a difference to being a note investor versus the property owner. (21:20) So we started teaching people how to do that. (21:22) And they're like, Oh, some people like it because it's different.

(21:25) They can do this from anywhere. (21:26) They don't have to be local to where they're buying and investing. (21:29) It gives them much more deal flow.

(21:31) Second thing, it also helps us raise capital because people now understand this concept versus fix and flip or stuff like that. (21:37) So that's kind of the big thing on it. (21:39) We make the majority of our money from real estate and doing the deals.

(21:42) Yes, we make some money from the education side and teaching people, but it's literally deals. (21:46) We're constantly buying on a regular basis and going from there. (21:49) We didn't buy deals two years ago and not done anything since then.

(21:51) Like a lot of them.

Mike Mills

(21:52) Yeah. (21:53) Well, I mean, you're making money through transacting with these deals and that's where the vast majority of your revenue is coming from. (22:00) But like you said, you can't buy everything.

(22:02) So there's a lot of deals out there to be had that maybe either you're limited on funds or you're limited in an area or whatever the case may be that having a network of people that you can go out to and say, Hey, look, if you want to do this, here's how it works. (22:12) Here's what you get done and helping them holding their hand through the process. (22:16) So then my next question is, somebody hearing this is going, man, I probably need half a million dollars to be able to even start doing this.

(22:22) So realistically, what is your entry point to say, okay, if I wanted to do this, maybe even, okay, how much does it cost to get the coaching so I can learn? (22:31) And then what's the cost if I just wanted to say, Hey, so here's part of it. (22:36) Like we were talking a little bit about this before we started, but I'm really big on learning how to do something, right?

(22:43) Knowing what it is and how it works, but I'm not always necessarily big on actually doing it once I learn it because there are certain things that I just need to understand the mechanics of it. (22:54) So then when I pay someone else to do that work for me, I know what the value is. (22:58) I can say, okay, yes, this is worth paying someone to do this, or this is not worth what I'm paying you to do it because I know what it takes.

(23:05) So just having the know-how doesn't necessarily mean you're going to go out there and start. (23:09) Look, you may just say, okay, I get what you're doing. (23:11) Now I want to give you X amount of dollars and you go do it because I feel comfortable and now I understand how it works.

Scott Carson

(23:16) Yeah, exactly. (23:17) So we have people that have their own money that invest their own money. (23:21) That's great.

(23:23) Totally fine to do that. (23:24) Use your own money. (23:25) I'm not against it, but I'm opposed to it a little bit because those that have 250, half a million or they use their own money, they'll buy until that money is gone.

(23:34) And then they'll sit around waiting for those deals to end before they get the money back. (23:37) I'm a big proponent of going out and raising capital immediately. (23:41) So if you've got five grand to start things that you'll need that for like marketing, websites, other things like that, to get the ball rolling.

(23:49) But you can find private investors all across the country. (23:53) Most of them just by just going to the county appraisal districts and typing in like a self directed IRA company's name and find people who have lent money out of their IRA for real estate deals or note deals. (24:03) So it's pretty easy to do that.

(24:05) But yeah, I mean our class, we've got a three-day workshop. (24:07) We teach once a quarter. (24:08) It's like anywhere from 600 to a thousand bucks.

(24:11) It's online. (24:12) We go through case studies. (24:13) We show you how to find them.

(24:14) We show you how to fund them. (24:15) We show you how to flip these deals or turn them into profit. (24:19) And then we've got some one-on-one coaching that varies depending on where everybody's at and stuff like that.

(24:23) But our biggest goal is literally to give you the tools so that if you want to, you can reach out on LinkedIn after hours or automate through like an octopus to start reaching out to investors. (24:33) Most of our people are doing this on a part-time basis, five to 10 hours a week around their full-time career and getting started. (24:41) I mean, like I'll give you an example.

(24:42) Like we've got a student, Larry bought his first note. (24:45) It was on a duplex in South Carolina worth 80. (24:48) The guy owed 40.

(24:49) He paid eight grand for it. (24:50) And the guy reinstated in 30 days. (24:54) And so the guy brought eight grand to the tables making a $450 a month payment.

(24:58) You're not going to get rich on that, but that's a great return for Larry. (25:03) John and Veronica out of New Jersey, they put about 200 grand of their own money in. (25:08) They bought 20 notes in 30 days.

(25:10) And it's yielding a gross 33% return and a net 21% after their closing costs and stuff like that. (25:18) And they're ecstatic about that, but they were very busy. (25:23) We helped them find the deals.

(25:25) We helped them go through the due diligence and stuff like that. (25:27) So they bought it. (25:29) I think it's in like six different states that these different notes are at.

(25:32) So it's just, you don't have to have a lot of money because there's a lot of great deals in other parts of the country than say like Austin, Texas or Dallas. (25:39) Real estate here is a little bit more expensive. (25:41) It's not saying we'll find something, but for what you can buy one note here in North Austin, which the median home price is $500,000 a month, you might be able to buy four or five or six notes say in like Columbus, Ohio or Lansing, Michigan, or a note or two in Florida.

(25:59) God's waiting room as I like to say.

Mike Mills

(26:02) I miss when you said that earlier, I was like, God's waiting room. (26:05) And now when you said it again, I'm like, oh, that's where all the old people are. (26:08) That's where they go.

Scott Carson

(26:09) But see, in states like Florida, it's a longer foreclosure timeframe. (26:13) So it may be 12 to 18 months. (26:14) I'm going to get it cheaper than I would say in a fast market like Texas.

(26:18) Right.

Mike Mills

(26:18) But you may have to wait a little longer on your return is all.

Scott Carson

(26:20) Yeah. (26:20) But that's the thing is when we look at our trade-offs. (26:24) It's going to be, it's not a 90-day buy, fix and flip and sell deal.

(26:27) No. (26:27) These are longer term deals that I tell people expected to be at least 12 months. (26:33) If you set yourself up for 12 months in non-judicial fast foreclosure states, you're going to be okay.

(26:38) Anything above that expected to be two years to buy, foreclose, or work it out to get the solid asset, the foreclosure process. (26:46) But bigger timeframes, bigger discounts can turn to bigger yields too.

Mike Mills

(26:51) So, I mean, it sounds like you can get involved for very, very little money, actually. (26:56) It doesn't take much at all. (26:57) And even, I guess, is there even a facet to where somebody says, hey, look, I don't have a ton of money, but I have a ton of time.

(27:04) And if you can teach me how to find these deals, and I can find investors, and I can put these things together, then I can make a little bit of a spread there too. (27:12) Is that?

Scott Carson

(27:12) Oh, yeah. (27:13) That's what we teach a lot of times. (27:14) Like, listen, hey, there's millions or trillions of money sitting on the sidelines making zero.

(27:19) Like you need to think about all this. (27:21) Well, let's just talk about stuff directed IRAs for a second. (27:24) Like Equity Trust, Quest, Pensco.

(27:26) They've got billions of dollars. (27:27) And on average, 30% to 40% of the money that they have in IRAs is sitting there making 0%. (27:34) Waiting for somebody to reach out to these people and say, hey, I got a deal.

(27:38) You want to fund it? (27:38) Make 8%. (27:39) You know, not to do anything is pretty good.

Mike Mills

(27:42) Well, the amount of cash, I mean, I read this. (27:45) I mean, Warren Buffett's a great example. (27:47) Not that you're calling up Warren Buffett, but he's got, I think I saw the other day, something about 25% to 30% of his entire holdings in cash just sitting on the sideline right now.

(27:58) Because, which we'll get into in a minute, the market overall, the US economy is very much starting to turn in a direction. (28:07) And I think if we're being honest with ourselves, it's been turning in this direction for a while. (28:11) We're just now starting to actually see it reflected in the numbers because the government is like, well, we can't keep hiding, whatever word you want to call it.

(28:21) They're, you know, fudging the numbers when you're- Just keep printing money and not have anything behind it in a lot of cases like we did during COVID. (28:28) At some point, that is all going to stop. (28:30) And when you're heading into a market like that, when the tide is turning, there's going to be opportunity to gobble up some things that are not going well.

(28:40) Because people are going to run into financial hardship, and that's where this stuff kind of comes into play. (28:44) So, I mean, I think we're very much headed into a market where, you know, it could be 12 months, 24 months, I don't know, but it could be six months where this really starts to be something that's a good avenue. (28:57) Well, I mean, a really good avenue.

Scott Carson

(28:59) So here, we've already been in for the last 12 months. (29:01) I see stuff six to 12 months ahead of what the retail market does. (29:07) And that's why we're not going to see a huge foreclosure tsunami.

(29:12) We're not going to see all these REOs, real estate-owned foreclosures at the market. (29:15) It's just not going to happen because banks and lenders are selling the stuff off to funds, investors like me. (29:22) And we are working out with the homeowners as best we can.

(29:25) And yes, we will foreclose on some, but it's not going to be like it was in 2010. (29:30) And here's the thing. (29:32) If you look at, especially like the commercial markets, we could get into that.

(29:34) There's already looking at some of the big discounts, like the Roosevelt Hotel in New York, 18 months ago, was like a loan for $200 million, sold for 25 million. (29:47) The debt sold for 25 million.

Mike Mills

(29:49) Is that where all the immigrants that were shipped to New York were staying?

Scott Carson

(29:52) Probably. (29:53) If they were smart, they would do that and then get the government to pay. (29:56) But it's funny that you say that, but that's why BlackRock has bought all those homes in New York state, because they get a ridiculous amount per refugee.

Mike Mills

(30:07) They get government money.

Scott Carson

(30:09) They get government money, and the numbers are three to four times what normal rent would be to come in. (30:15) So it's just ridiculous. (30:16) The government's literally like, okay, go buy these and we'll pay you four times that to put somebody in there that doesn't speak English.

(30:21) You know what I mean?

Mike Mills

(30:21) We've had this, I've had this discussion multiple times. (30:24) I have an investor here locally that I talked to, a good friend of mine, his name's Conrad. (30:27) And he does not a ton, but a fair amount of Section 8 housing.

(30:32) And what he explained to me in this process is like, when you do Section 8 housing, if you can get it to qualify, number one, there's a huge list of people that are trying to get into it. (30:42) Number two, the government pays you 80% of your rent and you get that check the first every month like clockwork. (30:49) You can count on it showing up in your account.

(30:51) The tenant is required to pay 20% of the difference of what the rent is. (30:58) And they're absolutely going to pay it because if they don't, they will get kicked out really quickly and someone else is going to fill that spot immediately. (31:05) So it is a great way to, I mean, look, I hate to say, but when you're on the government teat and they're sending you money every month, it's a pretty good spot to be in.

(31:14) You're getting paid.

Scott Carson

(31:16) Yeah, exactly. (31:17) I mean, owning the rental side and that's great. (31:19) Every market's a little bit different.

(31:21) Miami-Dade has a 90-day window before you get your first check, but you get all 90 days up front in a lot of cases there.

Mike Mills

(31:27) Oh, wow.

Scott Carson

(31:27) I don't necessarily like owning a real estate. (31:30) Don't get me wrong, you're still going to own some. (31:31) I like being the bank because I don't deal with toilets, tents, and trash outs.

(31:35) We still deal with some evictions, but we deal with it. (31:39) And I like being the bank because the bank always gets paid. (31:41) The thing that we worry about the biggest risks to this, if you're new, is you always got to double check taxes because taxes will wipe you out, tax foreclosure.

(31:49) And then also making sure you put insurance on these properties because if the borrowers don't keep insurance on it and they trash it, you're going to need your insurance to kick in your first place. (31:58) And in some states, like I'll give you an example, like Houston, Texas, which has been ravaged by hurricanes in that area, it's a tough insurance spot there. (32:05) Florida, the insurance costs have tripled in the last couple of years because of all the hurricanes down there.

(32:12) So it's hard in some places, those costs are definitely skyrocketing. (32:16) So you got to adjust your numbers.

Mike Mills

(32:18) Yeah, I'm curious about that. (32:19) I mean, that's a facet of real estate that, I mean, we know because we do it every day and you know, but when I talk to homeowners about this on a regular basis about getting pre-approved, up until the last probably 12 months, I've never really... (32:33) I mean, I always bring up insurance because it's a part of it, but it was never like a focus of it.

(32:37) It was like, hey, look, I had the same spiel. (32:39) If you're buying in Texas here where I'm at, if you're buying a house between 200,000 and 450,000, your insurance is going to be about 200 bucks a month. (32:45) It could be 175, it could be 225, but it's going to be somewhere in that range.

(32:50) And it doesn't matter what provider you use, as long as they all have the same coverage, you're going to be paid about the same. (32:54) Well, now I'm having to completely adjust that. (32:57) And now I'm spending a good 10 minutes talking about insurance because I'm like, look, not only are the variances going to be dramatic from where they were, because now that same spiel of 200 is probably 250 to 275 a month.

(33:09) But if you've got bad credit, and it was some companies, if you've had claims on other properties, not even on the house that you're buying, or if the house that you're buying has had claims on it, your premiums are going to go up. (33:23) And then what the insurance companies are doing now is they're adjusting the deductibles. (33:32) They're adjusting the deductibles to 1%, 2%, 3%.

(33:35) So the premium, because most consumers, they just look at the dollar. (33:38) Oh, that's a good price. (33:40) And they don't ask questions because insurance is boring.

(33:42) And then they look up and they've got a 3% deductible on a $500,000 house. (33:46) They have a roof claim and got to come out of 15 grand out of pocket for a $25,000 replacement. (33:52) And they're just like, what the hell?

(33:53) And you're like, yes, this is what is happening. (33:55) So from your point of view with these homes that you're, I mean, you're not the homeowner and you don't own the house, but you own the note. (34:01) And the insurance obviously is the asset, the values tied to the asset.

(34:05) How much has that been impacting you guys?

Scott Carson

(34:07) Very much so because we have to put, if you have a mortgage on your house, you need to keep insurance on there. (34:12) If you don't have updated insurance, you're going to get a nasty letter from your lender saying, hey, you need to get it on. (34:18) Or we're going to put something called forced place insurance and you're going to pay us to protect your ass.

(34:23) And in states like Florida, where the insurance costs have tripled, like going from 10 grand a year to 35, 40,000 a year.

Mike Mills

(34:31) It's insane.

Scott Carson

(34:32) That's insane. (34:33) But that's also because the major insurance, like State Farm, farmers have pulled out of there. (34:38) So you have a lot of smaller companies filling that gap, but they don't have the cash reserves.

(34:43) Can't take a billion dollar, $4 billion loss like those companies did. (34:47) And you're struggling with that. (34:48) So you have to keep that in mind.

Mike Mills

(34:50) Well, even, I mean, it's crazy the amount of, I mean, just in the last week, right? (34:54) We were here, you're in Austin, in North Texas here. (34:58) Yesterday was about as sunny of a day as it could possibly be.

(35:01) And we were under a tornado watch for that, for like six and seven hours. (35:06) And like, I was even, my son was at a baseball practice here in North Texas. (35:10) We were outside.

(35:11) It was again, bright, sunny, not a cloud in the sky. (35:14) And the lightning detector goes off because coming this way, there's this mountain of clouds that we couldn't quite see that was headed. (35:22) But you look at what's happening in Nebraska and all these, with these tornadoes that are just ripping through things.

(35:27) The weather activities that have kind of ramped up, and I don't wanna get into climate change and all that, but it has gone up. (35:35) And then the cost to repair that stuff is really what's caused the biggest issue. (35:39) Because I have an insurance guy that I talk to all the time who works for Allstate.

(35:43) And he was telling me that if this was five years ago and there was a tornado that came through the Midwest, it might be a $500 million, depending on how many. (35:53) Now it's a billion dollar claim because the costs have gone up for the same amount of air in the same repairs.

Scott Carson

(35:58) And there's, yeah. (35:59) And that's the thing too, is rehabbing homes. (36:02) The cost to rehab home has escalated, doubled in a lot of cases.

(36:06) I mean, the cost to replace an air conditioner going from like six grand to 13 grand. (36:10) You know what I mean? (36:11) To replace one single unit and some different flips that we've done.

(36:14) I mean, I don't like to flip properties because of that. (36:16) I like being in the bank. (36:17) I like controlling it.

(36:18) I like to make, you know, I like to buy- It's a gig property. (36:21) Don't get me wrong, we do rehab some properties. (36:23) You'll take some stuff back and get it cheap enough.

(36:25) But the point is, I like pretty much cleaner properties and keeping people in their houses and just stepping in and getting that cash flow. (36:30) It becomes a simpler aspect of things. (36:32) And then I'm not dealing with, you know, the days on market too has changed dramatically.

(36:37) Not dealing with that interest rate shock for people to buy.

Mike Mills

(36:40) So do you turn around and ever, do you turn around and actually, if you have, say you have 20 loans that you've had for say five years and they're all performing pretty well at this point, do you turn those around and sell them back off to bigger entities as well?

Scott Carson

(36:53) Yeah, we'll usually look at the 24 to 36 month mark on a sell-off basically. (36:59) And it'll varies on when we're buying the notes. (37:00) We're not usually buying newly created notes.

(37:02) We're buying stuff that's been around for a few years. (37:04) So we don't like to really hold on to notes that have, that are halfway through the 30-year period. (37:11) You know, start getting that 15-year time frame, that change in what's getting paid.

(37:15) It's not all interest. (37:17) It's a lot more principal. (37:18) So depending on what we borrowed or what we paid for, that's usually the point where like, we'll buy above that, below that, we're not going to buy it because it's just, it squeezes the ability for that cashflow to be different in a little bit.

Mike Mills

(37:29) I didn't even think about that too, that part of it. (37:32) So the longer somebody's had a note, the less interest they're paying on the back end because they're hitting the principal. (37:36) So you're not earning as much of a yield as you would on the front side of the note because the interest is at such a greater level.

(37:41) Okay, now I didn't even, never even crossed my mind.

Scott Carson

(37:44) Now, in some cases where we've bought stuff at 20, 30 cents a dollar, we can hold it forever for the most part. (37:50) It depends on what you pay for it. (37:52) Exactly.

(37:53) I mean, I bought this one little note up in South Beloit, Illinois, a couple of years ago. (37:58) Lady owed 60, the house was only like 35 because the market had tanked. (38:02) I paid 12K for the note and we modified the loan so that A, she brought a couple, 2,500 to the table on the front end.

(38:11) She brought another two grand over 12 months, paid, started making her normal payment of $450 a month. (38:17) Well, in the first year, I got 10 grand in on a $12,000 investment. (38:20) That's a pretty good yield to me.

(38:21) You know what I mean? (38:22) I didn't want to own this little property.

Mike Mills

(38:25) Yeah.

Scott Carson

(38:26) So we literally just, we reduced her interest rate to zero and every dollar, every penny she made went to principal. (38:32) So instead of taking her like 33 years to pay off the full balance of what was owed, she paid it off in six years. (38:39) And those are good stories.

(38:40) I like helping people stay in their houses and pay stuff off because we made money on it.

Mike Mills

(38:45) See, you're not the slimy bank. (38:46) You're the guy helping people buy their home.

Scott Carson

(38:48) I try to. (38:50) I would say I can be your white knight riding on that white horse, but if you want to work with me, you don't want to talk to my attorneys.

Mike Mills

(38:58) Well, no, that's good. (38:59) Because I mean, look, here's the problem with big banks, right? (39:05) And I'm the first one to be like, I hate the big banks because in many cases, you are a statistic on a spreadsheet and you're not a human being.

(39:16) You're not a person that's out there trying to make their way through it. (39:19) You're just somebody that is a number that they don't give a damn about, that they will do whatever they have to do to collect their money and that's it. (39:26) But if you can get with someone that is a human being that has a heart and a soul that really, hey, look, we're not doing this for free, right?

(39:35) You're in business to make a profit and make money. (39:38) That's what you do it. (39:38) Otherwise, you're not just a philanthropist here, right?

(39:42) You're trying to run a business.

Scott Carson

(39:44) Yeah, I don't run a charity. (39:46) I donate to them. (39:47) I don't run one.

Mike Mills

(39:47) Right, but in the process of doing that, if you can also find ways to help people keep their homes, well, that's fantastic. (39:55) That's great. (39:56) And in that case with that lady, I'm sure you made your initial return.

(40:01) You probably felt great about it and you probably could have continued to make more, but you elected to go, you know what? (40:07) I'm gonna help this lady get this house and pay it off. (40:09) So I've already made the money I've wanted to make on this.

(40:11) Now I wanna get some warm fuzzies and that's what I'm gonna do.

Scott Carson

(40:15) Yeah, I mean, the thing is so different is that we see all the notes. (40:19) We see the servicing notes when that bar is called in. (40:21) We'll get copies of all like their hardship letters that they send in.

(40:24) If somebody's been trying to do like a short sale or a loan, we'll literally get all copies of it. (40:28) So like we'll literally get a loan file like this. (40:31) This is one loan file.

(40:32) This is like what we bought. (40:33) We bought this loan file, which gives us access to the property. (40:36) And I could see in that one example, that we've been trying to modify her loan for four years and her loan had been sold four or five times.

(40:42) And the companies that bought it, since she owed a little bit, she was way down the totem pole as far as priorities. (40:51) And I approached it a little bit different because I was once a distressed borrower back in the day. (40:54) I almost lost my primary home back into 2002, being laid off and dealing with that.

(41:02) And I was like, oh, I always promised if I got this money to help people. (41:04) So I like helping people, but you no pay, you no stay. (41:07) You know?

Mike Mills

(41:09) Yes, you're still running a business. (41:11) You're still running a business. (41:12) And look, there are people out there that deserve help, that are trying their best to do the right thing and just get the raw end of the deal sometimes.

(41:20) I mean, those people are out there. (41:22) But there are also pieces of you know what out there that are not trying to do that and are trying to scam the system and run a game and do whatever they can. (41:30) And those people don't deserve help.

(41:31) And you know, you no pay, you no stay.

Scott Carson

(41:33) Exactly. (41:36) That's the great thing about this industry that I like is that actually to keep people in their houses, you're actually gonna make a higher return. (41:43) It's just one of the great things of working with people.

(41:45) There's some people, like we bought this one note with a guy hadn't paid in five years and we could tell he was a slime ball. (41:50) And it took us almost three years to foreclose because he played every legal plague and dick. (41:55) We knew we were still gonna win.

(41:57) And that felt good to foreclose and evict that guy. (41:59) All right?

Mike Mills

(42:00) You're throwing high fives around the office.

Scott Carson

(42:01) Oh yeah, we're like, yes, finally it's done. (42:04) We got rid of that guy. (42:05) But for the most part, like I'm not joking, 65, 70% of the time, you wanna keep people in their houses.

(42:10) People have gone through a financial hiccup and we're seeing that again, taking place. (42:15) And then when we talked like a week ago, you look at record defaults and credit card, auto loans, student loans, if Uncle Joe's not paying it off for you, if you're one of those lucky bastards out there. (42:25) But so people are struggling to put more food on the table or just the basic necessities.

Mike Mills

(42:31) I mean, the industry- We have one of the lowest savings rate we've had in 30 years right now.

Scott Carson

(42:34) Yeah, it was record high and then I was down record low again. (42:39) You know, appreciation is going up, but people can't pay for their necessities on equity. (42:45) You can't do that.

(42:46) And so we're seeing an increase in debt. (42:48) If you look at that number, it's about a 3% default rate where people are over 90 days late. (42:54) Okay, about 3%.

(42:55) That means there's about 2.5 to 3 million borrowers who are at least 90 days late. (43:00) Well, one out of 10, it's about a 9% or 10% default rate, late rate where people are rolling 30 days behind. (43:09) And that's not a good sign they're just treading water.

(43:13) And that's the most difficult. (43:14) And that's just the residential side. (43:15) Commercial is a whole different ballgame on stuff, but you got to realize that people need help.

(43:21) And if I can come in and, okay, I'll forgive some of the stuff that you owe, that you haven't paid. (43:26) Can you come to the table? (43:27) Can you meet me halfway?

(43:28) Let's literally create a win-win here. (43:30) You know, go for it.

Mike Mills

(43:32) So I feel like I want to get into the economy a little bit because you doing what you do, you have a little extra insight into stuff. (43:39) You said you're ahead of stuff and I've got a lot of theories on where we're at with things. (43:43) But before that, you've given us a ton of information about this.

(43:48) And I've learned more in this 43 minutes than I've ever learned with something like this. (43:53) So, but I want to know, how'd you get here? (43:57) Where'd you come from?

(43:59) How'd you get into this? (44:00) And how long did it take? (44:01) What was your path to becoming a We Close Notes Jedi?

(44:05) How'd you get there?

Scott Carson

(44:05) The Note Jedi. (44:06) Somebody called me the other day for May the 4th. (44:09) So I was a banker for JPMorgan Chase for a while after I got my assets out of a sling back in 2001.

(44:16) And a buddy of mine that I worked in the finance industry before started a mortgage company here in Austin with a couple of real estate investors that were traveling the country on the speaker circuit teaching people about creative financing, owner financing, and note investing side. (44:28) So from 2004 to 2008, I had like a four-year apprenticeship. (44:32) Not only were we originating loans for investors all across the country, but I was also learning that creative side of real estate investing.

(44:37) So when all this shit hit the fan in 2008, I sold my half of the mortgage company for a big walking buck because that's about all it was worth at that point and started just calling the same lenders that we had originated from and started contacting more banks. (44:51) I would be making 50 to 100 phone calls, three, four days a week to make these connections and get into the right departments. (44:59) I started getting lists sent to me.

(45:00) And then I just bought one note and wholesaled it, bought one note foreclosed, bought a couple of notes and flipped it. (45:06) Just the point where we started doing deals on a regular basis because it is definitely a niche what we do. (45:12) And just started teaching people, started doing videos online.

(45:15) We launched a podcast a few years back. (45:18) It's the number one podcast for note investing. (45:20) We've got the number one YouTube channel for note investors out there.

(45:24) I'm a big believer in giving people the tools to go out and succeed because if somebody gets a tape in or as we call it, a tape is a list. (45:31) If they don't know what to do with it, guess who they're going to call? (45:33) They're going to call me and I'm going to walk them through that.

(45:35) Let's help you move this stuff. (45:37) We'll help you raise capital for it or hey, I'll buy some of the stuff or hey, I know somebody that will buy this stuff from you.

Mike Mills

(45:43) Do you know who Alex Ramosi is? (45:45) Have you heard his name?

Scott Carson

(45:46) I don't. (45:46) Yep, exactly. (45:47) Mr. Tank Top. (45:48) Yep, exactly.

Mike Mills

(45:49) Mr. Tank Top. (45:49) Mr. Breeze.

Scott Carson

(45:51) Nostrip. (45:51) I think he's sponsored by them. (45:53) That's why he wears that all the time.

Mike Mills

(45:54) Yes. (45:54) Well, if you look at him and you don't know what he talks about, you're like, okay, well, who's this D-bag? (45:59) What's he doing out there?

(46:00) Whatever. (46:00) But if you actually pay attention to what he's doing, obviously he's making a ton of money. (46:04) So it's brilliant.

(46:05) But he talks about how, look, I'm going to give you all the tools. (46:10) I don't hide what I'm telling you. (46:13) There's no secret playbook that I'm not giving you access to.

(46:16) He makes so much content about everything that he has done from his gym launch to what he does with his investment company now and everything else. (46:23) But he also says, 90% of you aren't going to do it. (46:26) So I'm going to tell you everything you need to know, but you're not going to do anything about it.

(46:29) So it doesn't affect me. (46:30) And he's like, for those 10% of people that do, he's like, once you get to a place where now you need to scale and you need some money, give me a call. (46:39) Because you've done exactly what I told you to do.

(46:41) You followed it to a T or put your own spin on it. (46:44) And now I'm ready to invest in what you're doing because I can help you scale and I'm going to win and you're going to win and everybody's going to be in great shape. (46:52) And that's the thing with stuff like this, you know, and everybody's got their own little niche to some extent.

(46:58) You don't have to hide the secret sauce. (47:00) You can give it out to everybody. (47:02) Maybe you charge a little bit just like, Hey, I'm going to put some time into this.

(47:05) So come listen and I'll tell you how to do it. (47:07) But it's not, it's pennies compared to what you're making doing the other stuff. (47:10) But when you find that little nugget or that little diamond in the rough that really wants to get into this and you can partner with that person and go with it.

(47:19) I mean, that's where things really scale and explode. (47:22) And I'm sure that you've had multiple, you know, situations over the years and doing this so long where you've run into people that you've interacted with. (47:28) And you're like, Hey, look, I'm going to show you how to do it.

(47:29) And then you're like, go figure it out. (47:31) And then they call you back a year later. (47:32) Like, okay, I'm ready.

(47:33) I've got this, this, and this. (47:34) You're like, Oh, well, let's go. (47:36) You know, I can help you grow and go.

Scott Carson

(47:37) I, that's the most, that's what I get excited about more than anything else. (47:40) When I get phone calls from people, Hey, I closed my first note or I got this bar to do this or I raised, I raised my first capital from private investing. (47:48) That's the one that always gets me excited about it.

Mike Mills

(47:50) Yeah.

Scott Carson

(47:50) And I laughed a few years ago. (47:52) We've got, you know, it's a smaller niche of investors that do this, maybe 40, 50,000 people in total across the country that do this outside of like the big wall street firm, stuff like that. (48:01) It's so true.

(48:02) Maybe only 5% really do anything with anything.

Mike Mills

(48:06) You know what I mean?

Scott Carson

(48:06) Yeah. (48:07) And you just got, it's just gotta be, it's gotta be consistent. (48:10) It's not sexy.

(48:11) Send an email blast out once or twice a month to asset managers and then follow up with those that open them. (48:15) But that's how you get ahead. (48:16) It's the follow-up aspect of it.

Mike Mills

(48:18) Yeah.

Scott Carson

(48:18) There's not an MLS for notes. (48:20) You can't go to an MLS and buy a note. (48:21) There's a few websites you can take a look at, but you're going to get better deals and better inventory and better returns by putting a little bit of that dreaded four letter word to work, you know what I mean?

Mike Mills

(48:33) Well, and you know, that's one of the reasons I do this show. (48:37) And I've kind of shifted it a little bit too. (48:38) You know, I used to do a lot with real estate, you know, professionals like realtors and brokers.

(48:42) And I still have them on from time to time to talk about business and what's going. (48:45) But really where I want, (48:48) you know, to take this (48:48) and what I've been doing is like, (48:50) there are so many facets (48:51) of real estate (48:52) that if you know the business, (48:53) right, even a realtor, (48:55) a mortgage lender, (48:56) you know, title, whatever, (48:57) because it is a business (48:58) that forever, (48:59) which is part of the reason (49:00) we're in this lawsuit situation (49:01) that has been shrouded (49:02) in lack of information (49:03) because the general consumer (49:05) does not understand (49:06) because they don't do it very much. (49:07) They only do it once, you know, every 10 years or whatever the average is these days, eight years. (49:12) And so it's such a thing that if you've been doing it for 20 years or 15 or 10 or whatever, and you know house values and you know neighborhoods and you know parts of the country or whatever, that knowledge is so incredibly valuable and you can leverage that knowledge in so many different ways.

(49:27) And so I've talked to so many different people, including yourself and many others that are like, hey, you can do this. (49:33) Hey, you can do this. (49:34) There's this other way that you can make money.

(49:35) But just like anything else, and look, I'm not up here preaching because I'm just as guilty as everybody else of, hey, I've got a great idea. (49:42) Let's try this, this and this. (49:43) And I look back a month later, I'm like, I never did anything with that.

(49:45) So please, you know, I'm not up here talking about be like me. (49:49) I'm guilty of it probably more than anybody, but it always comes down to if you put time and you put work into something, it can breed and create money and progress for you. (50:03) But everything requires work.

(50:05) Everything requires work. (50:06) There is nothing that's get rich. (50:08) And if it is, if you're getting rich quick, you're probably going to get poor quick.

(50:11) Really good. (50:12) If you get too deep into something like that.

Scott Carson

(50:14) And here's the thing, when you invest in something, you need to understand what that niche is. (50:18) You got to understand it, that people get taken advantage of when they don't understand the concept. (50:23) They don't understand how it's different.

(50:25) Just because somebody's on social media, blasting how awesome they are and they got a private helicopter or private jet doesn't mean you should invest with them because your investment is probably funding that jet and helicopter. (50:34) It's not going to the actual deals. (50:35) You have to be careful about that.

(50:36) No names. (50:37) You know what I mean? (50:38) But you got to, but understand it.

(50:40) And yes, it's every niche is different. (50:42) Oh, hey, I got 20 years as a realtor. (50:44) And no, that seems different.

(50:45) Or I got 20 years as a mortgage broker. (50:46) That's good. (50:47) But it's, it's different.

(50:48) There's an interest. (50:48) You got to learn. (50:50) Got to take some time and invest.

Mike Mills

(50:51) At least you have a base of knowledge to start with.

Scott Carson

(50:54) That's a base. (50:55) A base is better than none. (50:56) But you don't have to have that.

(50:58) There's different things out there. (51:00) If anybody's interested, I've got a free one day class. (51:03) I'm glad to give away.

Mike Mills

(51:04) Yeah.

Scott Carson

(51:05) If you go to noteweekend.com, go there, sign up for it. (51:09) It'll send you access to my one day class, about three and a half hours of just me going through the CliffsNotes version of our bigger class to see if this is something you're interested in. (51:18) If you're not great, you still learn something from it about being a note investor, the note industry, because it's being talked about when you see stories in the media about all these lenders or all these banks going out of business up like that, you'll understand a little bit of why that is and where their assets are going.

(51:35) Yeah.

Mike Mills

(51:36) And we'll put all this in the show notes too so everybody can get access to them and see it. (51:40) So just check in the comments and show notes too. (51:41) But I mean, look, I speak from personal experience on this.

(51:44) So my wife's a realtor. (51:45) I'm a lender. (51:45) We've both been doing it.

(51:46) I've been in the lending for about 15 years. (51:48) My wife's been a realtor for about seven or eight years. (51:51) And we bought a house.

(51:53) We bought a lake house in Cedar Creek Lake. (51:58) Well, actually our first house was in Whitney. (52:00) And then we bought a second one in Cedar Creek.

(52:01) But the only reason we bought our second house was because we had a TV show reach out to us and ask us to be a like on... (52:10) It was like a HDTV. (52:11) It's called Lakefront Bargain Hunt Renovation.

(52:14) So I have an episode out there. (52:15) My wife and my family were on... (52:17) It's on the Magnolia Network that we did.

(52:19) It's runs and reruns. (52:20) I get text messages from friends all the time. (52:22) Like, hey, we saw you on TV again.

(52:23) But so you watch us, you're like, hey, these realtor, lender, like they got this figured out. (52:29) Well, guess what? (52:30) No, okay.

(52:31) Because when we bought our Whitney house, the idea was we were gonna buy it for us and the kids to go there, but we were gonna Airbnb it when we weren't there. (52:41) So that way it would at least pay for itself. (52:43) It wasn't like this big money-making deal, whatever.

(52:46) But when we renovated it, because we did, we spent way too much money. (52:50) We did it in the way that we wanted it to be, right? (52:55) Instead of the way that it made most sense and most economical.

(52:58) And we basically kind of did the same thing to a lesser extent, but a similar thing with the Cedar Creek house. (53:04) So the amount of money that we put in was not commensurate with what ultimately we made. (53:09) I mean, we still made a little bit, but nothing close because we knew how to do renovations.

(53:14) We knew value of properties, but we didn't know a ton about it. (53:17) And so because of that, we made mistakes. (53:19) Now those mistakes and the errors that we made, we improved on the second one and we'll improve going forward as well.

(53:26) But it's still, there's a learning curve. (53:28) And even though we had the experience and had gone through all this before, as far as being in real estate and being in mortgages and lending and finance and all that, there's still so many facets that you don't realize until you get into it and do these things. (53:39) So having a base is important, but you're still gonna make mistakes.

(53:43) But then if you have a Scott on your side to call up and be like, hey man, I'm screwing this up. (53:48) Can you help me show me what I'm doing wrong here? (53:50) That's always gonna be a big benefit.

Scott Carson

(53:51) Yeah, I mean, that's a very, very, very common mistake with new people to get into real estate to do the first flip, they over-rehab it. (53:57) You know what I mean? (53:58) Oh, I'm gonna put in granite.

(53:59) You don't need granite. (54:00) You can paint it, rebuff the one that's there. (54:02) You ain't gonna put in a nice flooring.

(54:05) No, just put damn laminate down.

Mike Mills

(54:06) You know what I mean?

Scott Carson

(54:06) There's some different things, but that's okay. (54:09) If you learn it, you went to the school of hard knocks, you'll learn that aspect of it and you're more knowledgeable on the next one. (54:14) The biggest thing that you said though is making sure you have somebody that can coach or mentor you along the way.

(54:19) I mean, you've got mentors, I've got mentors. (54:22) Those are valuable people to talk to and bounce things off of. (54:25) And so surround yourself with those that are doing what you wanna be doing and you'll go a whole lot faster and further instead of trying to be a lone wolf out there.

(54:32) In a lot of cases.

Mike Mills

(54:33) Yes, yeah, don't try to reinvent the wheel. (54:34) There's people that have done it and done it well. (54:36) So go learn from them and educate yourself as much as possible.

(54:39) And these days with YouTube and the internet, I mean, you can basically get a free education across the board or you can pay to streamline it. (54:47) That's generally how it works.

Scott Carson

(54:48) Exactly, amen to that, yeah.

Mike Mills

(54:50) All right, so before we wrap up here, I do wanna get into your thoughts on the economy as a whole. (54:54) So I will tell you kind of where I've been and I'm always telling people first because I want validation to make sure I'm not crazy on this. (55:00) But I personally actually sold out quite a few of my investments, whether it be stock holdings and I did some crypto stuff too and put a lot of cash on the sidelines.

(55:12) But I did this back early in 2023, like pretty early on because I was looking at everything and I'm going, okay, inflation's going through the roof. (55:22) This is going to be a problem for the economy as a whole. (55:26) And as things get more and more expensive, as housing gets more and more expensive, I was concerned about our industry, which was rightly so.

(55:33) And then I was also concerned about people's ability to spend and what that would do for the market on the aggregate. (55:40) And so I've been talking about this for about 18 months and I was like, I'm taking my money out because I don't trust where things are going. (55:47) Now, hindsight being 2020, if I had left my money in, it would be worth a lot more at this moment in time than it would then, right?

(55:54) But I still think we are very much headed in the wrong direction. (55:59) And when I see things like the job numbers, I get very frustrated because when you look at how these, how the BLS calculates these and puts these into equations and uses birth-death models and uses all of these, you know- Fuzzy math, fuzzy math. (56:16) They're not lying, right?

(56:17) They're not telling falsehoods. (56:19) They're just changing calculations in how things are measured to get the result that they want. (56:24) And I don't wanna say, you know, Democrats, Republicans, I don't care, it's whoever's in charge, okay?

(56:29) They're going to spin the story in whatever direction that is beneficial for them. (56:34) And as we head into an election year, which is where we're headed, it's now important more than ever that they make everything look good. (56:40) The problem is, is that I feel like they've kicked the can down the road for so long that now all of this is coming at the worst possible time.

(56:49) If you're, at least if you're on the, you know, in the Biden administration, if you'd have just taken your lumps back in 2022 and things were not maybe, or 2023, when things were not really that great and just, you know, raise the hiking cycle a little bit, cut back on government spending and kind of, you know, felt a little pain, you might've been coming out of it now. (57:05) But now I think we're getting into the worst part of it because these fuzzy math numbers are actually starting to show that there's some real weakness. (57:12) So what is your thought on that?

Scott Carson

(57:14) I totally 100% agree with it. (57:16) You, everything's more expensive. (57:18) We're not making more, technically more money in a lot of cases.

(57:22) So that's the numbers. (57:24) They say we're in a better spot. (57:25) No, look, we're not.

(57:27) They can, we're not. (57:28) Everything's more expensive. (57:30) Appreciation, inflation.

(57:33) Those are the things to look at, the buying habits and what's really going on. (57:37) I mean, it's great. (57:38) Oh yeah, let's have a $20 minimum wage.

(57:41) Well, that's great, but we're going to lay off 50% and replace you with the robots. (57:46) Yeah, you know what I mean? (57:46) ATMs. We are, what's sad is that we have turned a lot of us into a gig economy or a side hustle economy. (57:53) And a lot of the side hustles are not meant to be main bread earners. (57:56) And those people that are in that aspect of things, you got to, they're the ones struggling the most.

Mike Mills

(58:00) Well, that's where all the job numbers have come from.

Scott Carson

(58:02) That's exactly right.

Mike Mills

(58:03) We haven't added a full-time job to the economy since August of 2023.

Scott Carson

(58:06) We have not, exactly. (58:08) Not one at all. (58:09) We've lost a lot.

Mike Mills

(58:11) Yes, we've lost several hundred thousand.

Scott Carson

(58:12) Yes, we have. (58:13) Exactly. (58:14) So that's the thing you look at.

(58:15) Don't just take what they spot out there, no matter who you vote for, what side of the Republican, Democrat, there's a lot of shit taking place. (58:23) There were just numbers for that. (58:25) Look at the SpaceX, no full-time jobs, much more increased cost of this.

(58:30) Inflation is up. (58:31) Yes, we have kicked the can down the road two years, three years. (58:35) And that's what we're seeing is the results of them printing billions of dollars to do stuff with.

(58:41) The only way things are going to get fixed is, A, my big belief is we have to quit bailing out every other country out there, first and foremost. (58:49) Okay? (58:49) We don't need to send it.

(58:51) We're not going to, but we need to because we need to bail our folks out first. (58:56) We need to slow down the bores, not shut it down, slow it down a little bit. (59:01) Just get it managed.

(59:02) That's it.

Mike Mills

(59:03) Just manage it and have a system in place.

Scott Carson

(59:05) Exactly. (59:06) Don't get me wrong. (59:06) We need people coming.

(59:07) We need immigration coming in because they're doing a job.

Mike Mills

(59:09) Yeah, because now our birth rate now is down below two per year.

Scott Carson

(59:12) Exactly. (59:13) Yeah, that's not good either, by the way. (59:14) But we just can't have an open door and a free-for-all.

(59:17) That doesn't work in anything. (59:18) So there's policies that have to change dramatically. (59:21) Some people, there was an interview, I think with Max Tucker the other day, talking about how if you look at signs, any Republicans gone through things, it's like a downfall.

(59:31) I don't believe that. (59:33) Hopefully, we can correct it because we're smart enough and we don't deal. (59:36) It can be fixed in a relatively fast period if we just had common sense, but common sense is not common in a lot of cases.

(59:42) So here's the thing. (59:43) Having cash is not a bad thing. (59:45) It is good to have because if they ever do go to, oh, what do you call it?

(59:50) Where the banks freeze accounts, which we've seen that in different countries and seen, was that not inflation? (59:57) Is deflation? (59:58) Yeah.

(59:58) Is it inflation? (1:00:00) It's good to have that. (1:00:01) It's good to have, I'd have some extra stuff there because when you look at what they do and all the fear mongering that they play into, like, oh, COVID was way out of proportion.

(1:00:12) We didn't, the truth are coming from that. (1:00:15) Or the whole thing with the freaking moon something a month ago. (1:00:20) Oh my God, careful.

(1:00:21) Go fill up your gas tanks. (1:00:22) No, that's stupid. (1:00:23) That doesn't help.

(1:00:23) That makes it worse. (1:00:25) Yeah. (1:00:26) Having cash is not a bad thing.

(1:00:28) Yes, it would be worth a whole lot more now, but I'm not a fan of putting in things where a rumor can adjust what I own.

Mike Mills

(1:00:36) Well, and that's the problem right now with the market. (1:00:38) Every market right now, we see it because I pay attention to the bond market every day, right? (1:00:41) And what always happens, I should say, what has been happening very regularly is that we'll get an inflation number.

(1:00:49) We'll get a jobs number. (1:00:50) We'll get a GDP number that shows that everything's, well, inflation's high, jobs are plentiful, and we're GDPs through the roof. (1:00:57) So the economy's booming.

(1:00:58) So the bond market just goes in the tank, right? (1:01:01) And we'll get those headlines. (1:01:03) And then over the next two weeks, before the next report comes out, or a week or whatever, it starts to creep back up because they see the headline, they react, and then they get into the data and they go, wait a minute, this isn't exactly what they said.

(1:01:16) And then all the revisions come out, right? (1:01:18) Like in the third quarter of last year, one of my favorite follows on Twitter, Danielle D. (1:01:23) Martino Booth.

(1:01:24) I think she's awesome. (1:01:26) She runs QI Research. (1:01:27) She's been on this stuff for a very long time, but she was talking about back in the third quarter of 2023, they've done so many revisions now that they showed that we had an increase in that quarter of like 380,000 jobs.

(1:01:40) I don't remember the exact number. (1:01:41) But now with the revisions, we were down like 300,000 jobs. (1:01:45) And so she basically says that the recession started back in the third quarter of 2023.

(1:01:51) And now we're just working our way through it. (1:01:53) And we won't realize it, or they won't say it until we're past, probably past the election, quite honestly. (1:01:59) But even beyond that a little bit, when some of the numbers actually start to actually come in versus what they estimated.

(1:02:05) And you're gonna see that when you look back on this period of time, things weren't great. (1:02:11) And people aren't, because when I talk to people every day, they're struggling, they wanna buy a house. (1:02:15) Well, they can't because they don't make enough money.

(1:02:17) The house is too expensive. (1:02:18) And now I've just eaten up 60% of their household budget for a mortgage that they can't afford.

Scott Carson

(1:02:22) And now they gotta come up with additional 3% to pay the agent who's helping them buy the house too. (1:02:28) And a lot of people- Oh, yeah.

Mike Mills

(1:02:29) Well, that's a whole other thing that now, and again, I'm the champion of realtors, obviously, and the real estate industry. (1:02:36) And so I have a bias on this, but I hate seeing MSNBC and CNN and these like, oh, the home buying is gonna be so less, much less expensive. (1:02:45) And these realtors have been robbing people.

(1:02:47) I'm like, you're crazy. (1:02:48) You're absolutely insane because all you're doing this new rule possibly, and we'll see how it changes or how it evolves. (1:02:57) But if you're putting it, once the market shifts, rates come down and we become in a very heavy seller's market, which it isn't gonna take much to get there, sellers are not gonna pay buyer agent.

(1:03:05) They're not going to. (1:03:06) Right now they are because we're in this weird place where there's plenty of opportunity for you to do that. (1:03:10) But if we get back to like what it was in 2021, and not because of interest rates, but because of lack of supply, which is where we're at, rates could go down to 5% and we could be very much in that market.

(1:03:21) Well, then a seller's not gonna pay our buyer agent. (1:03:23) So who's gonna pay them? (1:03:25) Because the buyers can barely come up with enough for their down payment closing costs.

(1:03:29) Lenders are not gonna finance those into the cost of the home because we learned those lessons in 2008 basically. (1:03:35) So that's not gonna happen. (1:03:37) So all you're doing is making it harder for the average American to buy a house, which has always been what the path to wealth has been for every American since the dawn of the country is ownership of real estate of the place that you live.

(1:03:49) And now you're taking that away. (1:03:50) And that is terrible. (1:03:52) I couldn't agree more with you.

Scott Carson

(1:03:54) And when you look at numbers that came out like last week ago, Point to Home looked at the top 100 plus markets and 68 of the top 100 markets doubled in values in seven years or less. (1:04:07) That's a lot of equity. (1:04:07) That's a lot of growth.

(1:04:09) Home ownership is usually the biggest investor for most folks out there. (1:04:12) Home is castle, but for a lot of folks, it's becoming a nightmare because they can't afford to get into it. (1:04:17) So they gotta pay escalated rents.

(1:04:19) That's why I always say, listen, if you can get into a house, afford a house, get into it now and refinance later on. (1:04:26) It doesn't need to be the dream home, but a home is better than nothing. (1:04:29) And I think a lot of folks like, oh, I want the dream home now.

(1:04:32) No, no, no. (1:04:32) Get your starter home. (1:04:33) I mean, my mom and dad, when they bought their first house years ago, their interest rate was at 12 and a half percent.

(1:04:39) You know what I mean? (1:04:40) Rates are still low compared to that.

Mike Mills

(1:04:42) Obviously- Well, but that was an $80,000 house.

Scott Carson

(1:04:45) But they made a lot less money than they did now. (1:04:48) So that's all relevant. (1:04:49) So that's what I'm saying is, be smart.

(1:04:52) Maybe you need an Airbnb or couch surf or bring on a roommate to afford the first time. (1:04:57) There's nothing wrong with it, nothing to be ashamed about it. (1:05:00) Or go to the tiny house routes.

(1:05:01) There's a whole lot of different things you can do out there, but it's just not the same thing. (1:05:06) And things have to evolve. (1:05:07) And we have to evolve the way we look at the numbers and the falsehoods that they spit out to promote their whatever point they're trying to make in a lot of cases.

Mike Mills

(1:05:17) Yeah, it's an agenda. (1:05:18) I promise you.

Scott Carson

(1:05:18) It is all in the base, yeah.

Mike Mills

(1:05:21) And it's terrible too, because now I see these articles come out in the Washington Post and New York Times and these different outlets that say, Gen Z and millennials, they really just want to rent. (1:05:31) They want to have mobility. (1:05:32) They want to have flexibility to be able to move from place to place.

(1:05:35) And they don't want to be tied down to a place. (1:05:37) So they don't really even want to own. (1:05:38) They want to rent.

(1:05:39) And I'm just like, bullshit. (1:05:41) That is complete and utter horseshit. (1:05:44) There is nobody, especially maybe when you're young, in your early 20s, sure.

(1:05:50) But once you have kids and a family and you want to settle down, you do not want to do that. (1:05:53) You want to have a place of your own. (1:05:55) You want to have something that is yours that can build wealth for the future.

(1:05:59) And this idea that they're trying to sell us that people just ultimately want to rent, it's so frustrating. (1:06:06) But you got to be aware of it. (1:06:07) And that's the thing is like, there's not a whole lot we can do about it other than what you can do for yourself, find a house, get a home in whatever way possible.

(1:06:14) But you got to know what's happening because that's going to help form the decisions on how you move forward.

Scott Carson

(1:06:19) Yeah, I couldn't say it any better than you just did there, Mike. (1:06:21) I totally 100% agree.

Mike Mills

(1:06:23) Well, Scott, we went off on a tangent there, but I appreciate it. (1:06:28) Thank you for hopping on with me today. (1:06:31) I've learned a ton.

(1:06:32) I hope the audience gets a lot from this as well. (1:06:35) Like I said, we'll put all of your information in the show notes, have access to your class and all the stuff that they can check out as well. (1:06:41) So you're a wealth of knowledge.

(1:06:43) You've been doing this for a very long time. (1:06:44) You're obviously been podcasting for a while. (1:06:46) So you've got that process down as well, too.

(1:06:48) So you've been a great guest. (1:06:49) Anything you want to leave everybody with before we take off?

Scott Carson

(1:06:52) Make sure, guys, if you like what Mike is doing, because Mike is kicking ass and taking names, make sure you hit that subscribe button, go over and leave a five-star review. (1:06:59) That's the most important thing. (1:07:00) We as podcasters love to get that feedback, that gratification, seeing that, hey, what we're doing is actually making sense.

(1:07:06) Because oftentimes you feel like we're speaking to a void. (1:07:08) But go do that first. (1:07:10) And if you have any information or want to book a call, you can always go to WeCloseNotes.com, the main website, and make a phone call with me. (1:07:15) I'm always glad to talk real estate investing and point you in the right direction and give you my unbiased opinion on what you're doing to help you succeed versus failing.

Mike Mills

(1:07:24) Well, I always believe, surround yourself with people smarter than you, and you will have a lot of success in life. (1:07:29) So I appreciate you joining me, Scott. (1:07:31) This has been great.

(1:07:32) I'll be back on Tuesday for our next market update. (1:07:36) We'll dive into interest rates and the housing market like we always do, and then back on Thursday again. (1:07:40) So if you didn't catch this, you want to pick it up again, it'll be on Spotify and Apple Podcast tomorrow, and we'll go from there.

(1:07:48) But anyway, Scott, have a great weekend. (1:07:49) Everybody else have a great weekend, and we'll see you next time.

Real Estate Note Buying: How to Generate Passive Income with Scott Carson

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