How the Leadership Matters Book Empowers Realtors and Mortgage Pros

[00:00:00] Fobby Naghmi: Hey, uh, Mike, I mean, I know we're on the Texas real estate and finance podcast right now. I don't want to steal the thunder from you. Is there anything you want to add? I mean, this is your show, brother. We're just

guessing.

[00:00:20] Fobby Naghmi: Episode because we have another two more coauthors, right?

Yeah.

[00:00:25] Fobby Naghmi: My dear, dear friend, Karina Carter's here. I just love pieces. I say that openly and without any risk of whatever. And then we have our new friend, Mike Mills, who, by the way, we're simultaneously doing two podcasts. You, by the way, this is a first for, for our show.

We're actually part of the Texas real estate and finance podcast hosted by Mike Mills. Yes.

[00:00:46] Mike Mills: Welcome everybody.

[00:00:51] Ginger Bell: I love this. This is like. The best of leveraging, right?

[00:00:55] Mike Mills: That's right. We're leveraging time and cross promotion. I, uh, I set aside this week on my Thursdays because usually I do my show live on Thursdays from one to two, but I was like, Hey, this is a bigger situation here I got to take care of. So, uh, you guys are all my guests today as well.

So welcome. Nice podcast.

[00:01:11] Fobby Naghmi: By the way, if you want to ask us questions, Mike, honestly, here's the tables on us because. Karina did that to me in Orlando. Be careful with the whole show. And I was like, yo, be careful, man. Joe, she's taking over.

So is this music okay for the Texas people? Cause it's kind of a groovier. It's not like Texas style. Is it okay? I don't know. Sir,

[00:01:33] Mike Mills: are you implying that here in Texas, we don't know how to groove? Cause I know

[00:01:39] Fobby Naghmi: what are you

[00:01:39] Mike Mills: saying, man? I

[00:01:42] Fobby Naghmi: love it. I would never apply that in Texas.

[00:01:45] Ginger Bell: Hey Mike, Mike knows how to groove.

I mean, he took his daughter to a Taylor Swift. So

[00:01:52] Mike Mills: we went to, uh, um, uh, Harry Styles and, uh, you know, I can, I'll show you all my moves when we get to Las Vegas in October. I'll be there with bells on. So

[00:02:02] Fobby Naghmi: I'm going to miss that. Dang. Bobby, you

[00:02:06] Ginger Bell: may be rethinking that, huh? I

[00:02:08] Fobby Naghmi: might have to rethink that. We'll see.

We'll see. So listen, guys, we have a much, much bigger thing we've got to discuss here today, right? Cause we are all writing a book called leadership matters. And all of us have our own chapter, which is really kind of cool. Cause a chapter is basically our story, you know, and it's really kind of like capsulized in this one moment.

And we all were given a task, 1500 words. I think Mike, you went to 3000 or 6, 000. I was talking

[00:02:34] Mike Mills: on about 6, 000 and figure out I'm long winded as it is. So you got to cut that stuff back a little bit. I didn't want to upset Ginger. So I tried to slow it down and try to keep it as comfortable as possible.

Cause I knew she'd, you know, slap you down. Nope.

[00:02:46] Ginger Bell: Apparently Bobby has that, uh, the sound that I make when I,

[00:02:51] Fobby Naghmi: yeah, I mean, look here, right? 6, 000 words.

[00:02:57] Mike Mills: How

[00:02:57] Fobby Naghmi: can I slow

[00:02:58] Mike Mills: down? Easy, easy.

[00:02:59] Ginger Bell: So Bobby, Alex sends me a message yesterday and he goes, How many pages am I allowed? Not having words.

[00:03:08] Mike Mills: We talked about it.

Actually. I met with Alex, uh, earlier this week about something else. And we were chatting about it and he was like, I wonder if I could get, but it's not words. It's pages.

[00:03:18] Ginger Bell: I know what he wants to do. Which is

[00:03:21] Mike Mills: really cool. It's a great idea. I was like, and

[00:03:23] Ginger Bell: that's, and that's the great thing about pulling all of these authors together is, and Bobby, you and I worked on that to where it's like, we want to make sure.

We have a broad range, um, that speaks to all the different. Um, areas in, in, um, you know, the mortgage industry, we do have people outside the mortgage industry. So obviously, leadership encompasses more than, than what we all deal with in the mortgage industry. But that was one of the things we really wanted to make sure is that we had, uh, A mixture of leaders from technology, you know, from regional managers, from brokers, from, um, you know, coaching and training and, and all of that.

And, and I'm very happy to say that, uh, our group of authors is absolutely amazing. I can't wait. It's one month from today, my friend, the day of this recording, 30 days.

[00:04:17] Fobby Naghmi: Ends man. Karina, I mean, about your story, let's, let's, let's, let's start with this real quick. I got to know, is there a line in your story that you wish you hadn't written?

Like, I wish I could just take that line out.

[00:04:32] Corrina Carter: No, I actually, um, I I'll just say something real quick. So I was on vacation just recently and I kind of put two things, one thing together first, the second one, and I let my girlfriend listen to it. She kind of did a side nod. Right. And I, that side, not was like, not bad.

And I was like, okay, I'm redoing the whole fucking shit. I'm redoing all of it.

Oh, wait,

[00:04:57] Mike Mills: let's go. All right.

[00:05:02] Ginger Bell: It's in Texas. So yeah,

[00:05:03] Mike Mills: that's right. We got us all the time. You're good.

[00:05:06] Corrina Carter: I redid it all with more intention. So I'm going to say no, I, I, I'm going to say no. Everything I have in there is for a reason.

[00:05:16] Fobby Naghmi: Yes. Yeah. And so Mike, I mean your journey as into the mortgage industry, like when you were a kid, I guess you wanted to grow up and be a mortgage guy.

[00:05:24] Mike Mills: Nobody in mortgage ever grew up wanting to be a mortgage. If you say you did, I'm going to call you a liar. So we all, we all just kind of end up here and then we're like, man, I guess I'm kind of okay at this. So I guess I'll stick around because. I, I've always told my, my, my wife's in real estate too.

She's a realtor. And, uh, anybody that's ever asked me about like, do you just love doing loans? And I'm like, it's kind of like groundhog day. Cause you kind of do the same thing over and over and over again, but it is a little different because every situation is a little different. I'm like, but there's really not a career that I can think of where.

The amount of flexibility as far as your time and what's required of you and the access that you have to deal with your clients. Because these days, especially, you know, the days of one to one sitting in an office with somebody, you know, even when you try, there was a period of my career, I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to just try to meet every bar where face to face you get about 10 percent that even are agreed to do that.

And you're like, all right, and then you got to jump through a million hoops. But. But the flexibility and the income potential that you have in this career and how much money you can make, depending on how much work you put into it. I don't know that there's too much, you know, there's too many other things like that.

I mean, obviously that, that breezes its way all the way through real estate, but, but that's why I enjoy it so much.

[00:06:32] Fobby Naghmi: So do you think that you like, you aspire to be a leader or was that something that just kind of walked into?

[00:06:37] Mike Mills: Um, I think as a kid, uh, I talked a lot and which is why I have podcasts cause I just run my mouth a lot.

And so I think anytime, uh, you're loud like I am and you talk a lot, I think you just kind of end up in those situations where people are like, well, what do you think? And it's like, Oh, I didn't know you cared what I thought, but okay, here's what I think. Um, and so to some extent, I think you just kind of end up there.

Uh, but then once you. The benefits of it, meaning you feel the impact you have on other people sometimes, and you get that feedback, then it's something you crave. Then it's like, man, I really, I want to help more people. Like if I could. If I could pick my career that associated the money to what I can generate in this job, I would be a coach because I just love, I've coached my kids since they were, you know, four years old all the way through, uh, up to junior high when the adults took over.

And it's something that I have a passion for. I ran a swim school for kids that had 2000 swimmers and I, I had an office staff of 30 people and it was just, I just love that. And that's my passion. Um, and that's what leadership is, is you're, you're coaching a group of people and you're trying to get them to the next level.

And also, you know, be honest that, Hey, look, I don't have it all figured out either. I'm, I'm figuring this out as we go to.

[00:07:50] Fobby Naghmi: Yeah. Yeah. Ginger, you know, what's so interesting? Well, look, this is the third batch of third batch of co op we're speaking to, right? And it seems to be the same team over and over again.

Like we just kind of like wake up one morning, like, I haven't seen anybody like say, I wanted to be a leader in the mortgage industry.

[00:08:09] Ginger Bell: Well, I think this goes back to most individuals who end up in a leadership role, start out as. A manager and, and then, and I think that's a lot of it and Fabi, you and I had this discussion too, when we were selecting individuals to be in the book and a couple of people we talked about, um, who are not in the book, you said, I just really don't see them.

As a leader. And so I think for most of us, we end up in a position of management where you're put, you're responsible for managing people, but there's a big difference between being a manager and being a leader. And I think that's why this book is so important because leadership, and that's why the title, and we went back and forth on titles and you, you were very, very much positioned.

And that's the title leadership matters because it does. And it's that part of it that I think in the journey and going, having conversations with the authors that I've had and, and reading through their chapters that I see that most people don't come into thinking, yeah, I want to be a leader. Most people are leaders and don't necessarily know their leaders.

[00:09:33] Fobby Naghmi: That's so interesting. Karina, you have a very unique situation because you're the owner of CMS Mortgage, right? So you're the owner, founder of CMS. So you're seeing future leaders underneath you, which I think is pretty cool because I get to see some of the guys that are following you and blossoming underneath your, your, your leadership, right?

Explain that if you can in some words that the rest of us could understand what that feels like.

[00:10:03] Corrina Carter: I think it feels. Like birth in a baby, kind of, right? You wouldn't know that though, Fabi, right? It's like you, you kind of, for nine months, you kind of watch and see, it's kind of like the whole thing higher, fast fire, faster, but then when you get past that point, you're like, oh my god, they can be this, they can be this, they can be this, they can be this, and then all of a sudden they become your right hand, they become your left hand, and I think you really start looking at them differently, too, and you start delegating differently, and then they start reading your mind, right?

I have four right now that they can read my mind almost sometimes before I do or speak for me before I do And when I tell you I got goosebumps right now that that feels so good Finally in my career that I can hand that off or it comes back to me without even asking Um, that's like a blessing in disguise.

I mean, it's just it's just such an honor

[00:10:57] Fobby Naghmi: Do they know that they're in that position of leadership? Do you let them know that hey, I trust you with this Or is it something that's assumed?

[00:11:07] Corrina Carter: Oh, no, they know They know, um, because I mess up every day, so they clean up for me too. So, I mean, we never are perfect.

And I always say every day, I'm not a hundred percent right. And never going to be perfect. So they are constantly, you know, evolving and helping me evolve. Right. So, but they do know because in a commission based position for almost everybody in our industry. It's like, I've always taught, you know, how do you own your day?

So once you really solidify that and you go over the bridge and what Ginger just said is like, you, you don't even, I don't know when I became a leader, I've always been a manager and a boss. Right. And I think you said it best when we were in Florida, like, where did this change? I was a faux originator, a pretty good manager in both and then bridge the gap over to a leader somewhere, right?

Because I was always a single mom providing for my family. Well, I don't think, I

[00:12:07] Mike Mills: really don't think that leadership is something that leaders seek out, honestly, because I think that the people that are seeking leadership, like if they're actively seeking it, those are generally people that you probably don't want steering the ship.

Because just like Karina said, she's like, I make mistakes all the time. I mess up. I'm just the fact that an individual is able to own that, because I think we can all recognize that we know plenty of people in our lives and plenty of quote leaders or managers that are always quick to blame someone else.

for something that went wrong. Oh, that was that person's fault or this person. It wasn't my team. I mean, I literally had a conversation about this today. It's it's, you have to own your team's mistakes and your responsibilities and your own, and to be able to have that ownership and demonstrate that to your team gives you the respect, the honor, and the trust that you want from them.

And then anybody that doesn't have that mindset and doesn't carry that with them. Doesn't need to be in leadership typically.

[00:12:58] Fobby Naghmi: Yeah. But also we're saying this tone, we're saying the tone for the P in the people in our team, right? Like, Hey, look, if I can say, I'm sorry, I own this. This is my bad. I didn't see this coming down the way they did.

Right. Then when it's your turn, don't feel ashamed or prideful to say that. And I think by example, right. I mean, Ginger, we're just talking about this recently. By example, we become better leaders. And we can then train other people to do that. So Mike, let's stay with you for a second. Is there like in your story, and I didn't read it.

I'm sorry. You know what I mean? So I'm just kind of like blindly just asking questions. There's a lot

[00:13:37] Mike Mills: of chapters in that book. So I didn't have

[00:13:39] Fobby Naghmi: time for 6, 000 words for 6, 000 pages, huge indiscriminate again here. But is there like a part of your story where, where you, you know, we all have failures and I think if you don't feel that you're not a good leader anyway,

[00:13:56] Mike Mills: every day.

[00:13:56] Fobby Naghmi: What's like a good failure lesson to you that you, that you really felt like propelled you to where you are today?

[00:14:04] Mike Mills: Well, I think that, um, I, as a young person, like I'm 45 now, so I'm not necessarily like over the hill per se. I mean, even though I guess the balloons would say so, but ultimately, like, you know, I still feel like I'm pretty young and, but in my early career, I was, I was given opportunities for leadership very early on in different roles, not necessarily in the mortgage industry.

I didn't get into it till I was in my thirties, but in my early twenties, um, like I said, I, you know, I ran a swim school for kids. We had 2000 students. I had a staff of 30, I was 24 years old. Like that, that's how old I was when I was doing that. And. It, I understood that I couldn't rely on everybody else because when you, when you first get into that role, you're, you're waiting like a child, kind of like your, well, my mom's going to take care of that.

So they're going to take care of that. They're going to handle it. And you, you go, wait a minute, you have to fall down several times. And then you look around. I was like, who didn't do their job on this thing? And you go, Oh, wait a minute. That was me. I didn't do it. Okay. That that's on me. I got to figure that out.

So. I think failure is such an important thing early on. Um, I, this is something I beat into my kid's head and they, they just despise me for it. Cause you know, you can imagine living with someone that doesn't shut up all the time and has all these platitudes to tell you it's not exactly exciting for a teenager, but One of the things that I beat into their head constantly is like, when, when something goes bad, when you, cause they're both athletes, my daughter plays volleyball, my son plays football and baseball, when something doesn't go your way, you, you can take the moment in, you know, it's okay to be upset, it's okay to be frustrated, we all have feelings like acknowledge that, but then you got to move on from that quickly and recognize what you did wrong.

And go back and try to fix it and improve that for the next time, because it's a cliche, but it's true, right? You don't lose, you learn. So you have to learn from your mistakes and the more mistakes you make, especially while you're living under my roof, it's good because we can fix all that problems and we can take care of things and I can help you work through it.

But when you become an adult, those mistakes carry more weight. So if you can make early mistakes early on in your career, if you can make mistakes early on in your, you know, in your life, that is going to serve you well down the road, because when you continue to make mistakes, which I do this every day, then you can handle them better.

You can learn from those better and you learn how to deal with it overall. So I think failure early on as much as possible. Make yourself do hard things. So you're likely to fail because that's going to do you a lot of benefit down the road.

[00:16:20] Fobby Naghmi: Yeah, Ginger, that kind of couples in with what Karina was saying, you know, seeing the loan officers transform into leaders.

They're like your babies. So make the mistakes while you have the time when under the tutorship of somebody else, right?

[00:16:31] Ginger Bell: Yeah, that's safety net And I remember I had a very good leader when I was very young I had a recruiting job and I had totally messed up I mean, we had this big placement and with a sad agency we were going to do, and it just totally unraveled and it was on me.

I mean, it's like I hadn't communicated and all that. And I was terrified to go into her office and to do the debrief on it. It's like, Oh my God, she's going to kill me. I'm going to get fired. And so, you know, The one of the most important things I know, Karina, you do this. It's like, tell me about it. And listen, we talked about this in the last podcast.

Being a good listener is very important as far as leadership. But the thing she told me, I'll never forget it. She said, what did you learn? So to that lesson, like, what lesson did you learn? I said, Lou, this is this. And she goes, great. She goes, I want you to make mistakes.

Mm.

[00:17:27] Ginger Bell: I want you to make mistakes. If you're not making mistakes, you are not taking enough risk.

And to me, being able to, to hear that and, and learn that, and I've taken that to be so much of what I do, you know, with my team and the things that I do for leadership. And I taught the same thing with my son, Mike, to where it's like, Hey, safety nets here, make all the mistakes right here. This is a time because how you react to those mistakes.

Yeah. And what lessons you've learned and then making those adjustments and not repeating the same mistake over and over again is, is the sign of a great leader.

[00:18:07] Fobby Naghmi: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Mike, I mean, I know we're on the Texas real estate and finance podcast right now. I don't want to steal the thunder from you. Is there anything you want to add?

I mean, this is your show, brother. We're just guessing.

[00:18:20] Mike Mills: No, I mean, look, uh, I, um, I'm curious when you guys sat down and you decided to, cause I mean, you know, there's a lot of, uh, very impactful individuals on this book that are, um, you know, have accomplished a lot in their career. Um, you know, what were some of the things that you looked at to say, okay, You know, this is what we look for in leaders, because I think, you know, when you're, when you're in a hiring position, right, and this is kind of, this kind of falls into that category.

When you're in a place where you're hiring people, as you start moving up, you start hiring people in different, roles, right? So maybe initially you're hiring a loan officer, then maybe you're hiring a processor, but then you may be hiring a operations manager and you may be hiring a team manager and someone that's gonna, the further you get removed, you know, from, from ground floor, um, the more layers you have to have to some extent, and then you need leaders in those roles to be able to carry them.

So, so I think, you know, Looking at how you would evaluate a leader. Like, what do you look for? What are the qualities that you guys, when you were picking out authors, when you were like, okay, this person does this, like, what were some of the the traits that y'all looked at?

[00:19:19] Fobby Naghmi: I was looking for, well, let's be honest.

Ginger was a very open person. She wants everybody to just be happy. And I was very like, no, Ginger, we can't do this. I was pretty hardcore about it. You know what I mean? Because I wanted to have a good book that had character and some, and some oomph about it. And maybe that's that, you know what I mean?

That little bit of me, right? But I, I think having what kind of we're talking about, like, do they have failures? Did I know of them? Did I, did I know, like, I don't want to name any names. We don't want to do that. Right. But there was some people that were brought up that were like, I didn't ever see them fail.

Like whenever things got tough, they were bouncing to another company that like, how would I trust that guy to write a chapter in my book? That kind of stuff. Right. So I don't want, I don't want to sound like a jerk cause that's not my intent. Right, right. And I would love to write, I get along with everybody, but at a certain point we're trying to give the market.

Something that I think hasn't been done yet, which is we have 25 accomplished leaders in this book. That are absolutely telling us exactly what happened when the shit hit the fan. That's

[00:20:20] Mike Mills: pretty cool. Well, it seems like most of the lessons are generally like when you look at the themes, right? The themes overall are pretty similar, right?

There's not, nobody's reinventing any wheels here, right? This, this is all stuff that's there, but, but I think when you can apply stories and when you can apply, you know, a point of view to a particular theme that comes from someone that tends to resonate a little. A bit better because not everybody in having 20 points of view, you cover a lot of bases because a lot of different people are going to have a lot of different ideas on how they approach that theme and be able to say, well, this is what I did, or this is how I would look at it.

To

[00:20:59] Fobby Naghmi: Ginger's credit. I mean, she was the one who won. I mean, I was trying to limit like maybe 14 to 15 and she was like, open up the tent and that's, that's to her credit, man, that, that we ended up with this number because I, I never even imagined we could get this, I mean, I will tell you guys this, and I've said it before.

I was very overwhelmed when I logged onto that Zoom call and all you co authors were there. In all the projects that I've ever, and I've built a mortgage company before, I have done all sorts of, that moment I will never forget as long as I live. Because I didn't, I never, I never imagined that, that, that many people were going to be on that Zoom call at that time.

[00:21:33] Mike Mills: I think we all had a level of imposter syndrome. Like, why am I on this call? What's going on? Why, why did they, did they pick the right person? I don't know if this is right. I'm suck at this. I don't know.

[00:21:42] Fobby Naghmi: You did a lot more of the picking than I did. I just kind of gave you a few names here and there. I mean, so you can probably speak more to that topic than I could.

[00:21:49] Ginger Bell: You know, honestly, Fabi, I think one of the things for me and, um, collaborating on this book is I have had the opportunity to meet So many impactful leaders who don't know the impact they have. And so for me, it was important to be able to involve. Those individuals that had that leadership quality of, um, humble being a humble leader, a servant leader.

We talked about this in our last podcast as well. And so that to me, when I look at the traits of the leadership, someone who I want to, you know, mentor with or work with or involve myself with, I think that's probably the one thing. And the, and I kept hearing it over and over and like, Mike, it's like, okay, I want you to be on this book.

It's like, why me? And that was part, and some people, I really had to have some heart to heart conversations with because they didn't necessarily see themselves as strong leaders, even though they are in a leadership role and have been leading. And so I think that's the one thing I'm probably the most excited about with this book is because we have such a great collection of those humble leaders who have an impact, make an impact and don't know it.

You know, it's like you, for example, Mike and, and I met Mike, honestly, he called me and invited me onto his podcast. And I don't think he even knew who I was.

[00:23:22] Mike Mills: I didn't know who you were. I researched you and I was like, I'm obsessed with AI and you'd written an entire, like in a matter of like the, the whole concept of AI came out like two years ago, barely, right.

It was like, we're real, not the concept of it, but just the, the popular reality.

Yeah.

[00:23:42] Mike Mills: And, and I look up and I'm like, okay, who knows, you could talk about this. And I find ginger and she's literally written an entire, you know, program of, of education and started, uh, selling it, marketing it. And I'm like, how?

How did she do this so fast and understand so much? And then she's like, well, why don't you look at the classes? You too. And I go through it. I'm like, how, how, how did she do it? Like, I was so blown away and impressed by her level of depth that she went into in such a short amount of time that I was like, I got to talk to this lady because she knows so much and I want to pick her brain as much as possible.

I love picking people's brains.

[00:24:16] Fobby Naghmi: That's one thing that I think that AI will never be able to accomplish is that, that leadership role.

[00:24:22] Mike Mills: Oh,

[00:24:22] Fobby Naghmi: yeah. Right. I mean, we could, I think we could all agree with that. I mean, there, there, there are certain things that A. I. is just is limited on, right? I mean, we can tell you the attributes of a leader, but it may not be able to actually accomplish it.

[00:24:34] Mike Mills: Well, in Ginger's class, you know, when we were doing our, our real estate, uh, CE for it on using A. I. inside of real estate, one of the, um, one of the topics that we talk about is like the jobs that it's going to replace. Like, what will it take and what will not take, you know, and when you look at the jobs that it can't take, there's things like human empathy and recognizing complex situations and being able to make decisions.

And these are all leadership qualities and leadership responsibilities that you have to have when you're put into a role like that. And so that kind of tool, at least for now, at least for now, I keep saying that I always say, please, when I'm talking to AI, by the way, just in case, just in case. But as of now, you're not going to see, you know, those type of tools, they will augment and they will help leaders do their job more efficiency or with more efficiency and better, but they're not going to replace that.

You can replace a lot of things, um, but you cannot replace that human touch in the middle of it. Just like with realtors, they cannot be replaced as far as what their job is. I think my job might be at risk a little bit, if I'm being honest, but, but ultimately I don't think there's is so, but I am curious creative for you specifically, like what.

When you went out and decided to like, I'm going to do this on my own. Like, I'm going to go start my own thing completely. Cause we all like living under the umbrella and the coat and the comfy blanket and like, Oh, everything's good here. This company is going to take care of me. What was the thing that, you know, kind of pushed you to say like, I'm going to go do this on my own.

I'm going to go. I'm going to go Han Solo this and pirate out on my own.

[00:25:57] Corrina Carter: So I'll say 2025 is our 20 year anniversary. So it is 20 years. So I'm excited. I made it through 20 years. So I've got just a few more months to go to celebrate. Um, but I will say, I didn't want to be like everybody else on the corner.

So if it was a particular name or particular person, I wanted to be able to develop within ourselves, our own character. And that's kind of what me and Bobby talked about in Florida. Like what I consider the new age originator that was still the same originator back then. Right. Is that I just wanted to be me.

And I didn't want someone to compare me to another branch or another facet of an office somewhere else. And I just felt like I wanted them to just work with me. Um, and I didn't want, like, if someone sent out a prequel on somewhere else. They would compare me because this other person they don't like working with.

Does that make sense? So I felt like maybe at that time that would just be going off on my own and little did I know I'd still be here 20 years later, but you know, three years after I opened was 2008. So

So, um, but yeah, so I think for that, a lot of people look at that and when I say then, you know, I became a manager real quick then and had 37 originators, but I still wasn't a leader. Right. And I, and I have a long ways to go to be a leader that honored people. To be here with Ginger and Bobby, which we go way back.

And I followed Ginger for like the past, almost my whole career. And Bobby, we met, gosh, almost when I first opened my company. So just to be here in the, have them pick me to be on here. I've got goosebumps because it shows how far I've came. So, um, I'm honored because I followed them and said, I want to be like them.

[00:27:55] Fobby Naghmi: One question I got to ask Karina, right? Because this is really important. You were a single mother during all this time. How to being a single mother, develop your leadership skills.

[00:28:07] Corrina Carter: So I, so I, there's one thing, um, that I did write on, but it's very quick. And I just spoke to my team about this yesterday and we get faulted for this a lot as leaders is we get faulted for leaving the baggage yesterday in yesterday and we move forward and some people think that's cold, right?

But if we focus too much on it and we can't. It's only going to cloud our day and our vision for what we're doing today and tomorrow. So in life, as well as in business, that is one trait I say that I've always had, but then it's always been something that's been looked at that I can imagine. A phobie. I mean, I'm a very personable person, right?

I mean, I've been called cold hearted most of my life, right? But I I'm full of opportunities. I give opportunities, but it's because of that one trait that I feel like I'm good at to leave it yesterday as yesterday and don't carry it forward. And that's helped me. So. Being a single mom, that helped because I didn't have to carry that, which is also a fault and flaw because my kids never saw me struggle a lot.

Right. , they don't know what 2008 was. They don't know what 2011 was except for Deshawn was on a podcast with Fabi and he's my, now my COO Mike, he's my son, and he had to cut legal paper into letter paper because we didn't have $35 to go buy a case.

[00:29:37] Mike Mills: I promise you they saw you struggle. They didn't realize it when they were that age because kids don't have that recollection, but then as an adult, I guarantee you, he understands what you went through and appreciates it.

I would, I would, I speak from experience on that. They, they, I remember. From my, my childhood. So I, you know, you, you always go through rough times as a kid, you know, everybody has their own version of, of what that is. You know, I've heard something said before you. something is only as bad as, as, as ultimately what you've experienced.

So if it's the worst thing that's happened to you, it's the worst thing that's happened to you. And the reaction is the same, right? So somebody might get their leg cut off and someone else might cut their finger, but that's still the worst thing that's happened to them. And so, you know, you, you internalize it the same way.

But I think as you go through life and you get experience and you get wisdom, then you start to realize as an adult, when you look back on how you grew up and you can appreciate certain things and what your family struggled to do. And then you can also understand what they actually had to fight through in order to get to where they were.

So they may not have understood it, you know, when they're 12 years old, but I guarantee you at 25, 30, 40 years old, although. Most of us men are pretty dumb until we're four. I think I just started figuring things out a few years ago, but, but we get there, we get there eventually. It's just a slow process.

[00:30:48] Corrina Carter: So thank you, Bobby. So, I mean, it's been the kids and the business at the dinner table for 20 years.

[00:30:54] Fobby Naghmi: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and listen, I mean, I think at the end of the day, I think Mike hit, hit, hit around the head. I mean, the kids are watching, our employees are watching. Always. We'll go back to the example, the example that we're setting, right?

I mean, and like, do we capitulate when, when, when, when things go rough or do we, you know, Okay. We're going to cut the legal paper into letter size, because that's what we got to do now. Right. I mean, just, that's the way it works. And I think that's the qualities that, so Mike, do you answer your question?

Right. This is what I was looking for when I was trying to put this book together. You see what I'm saying? This is the stuff that, that, that, that the real shit is made out of. Yeah. I mean, we see a lot of CEOs on CNBC and, and that's great. I I'm sure they got their stories as well. Right. Mhm. These are the people that ginger and I knew in our network that could bring the stories to life.

So that's someone who reads these stories doesn't have to feel left out and they have hope that they can do something greater one day. Maybe.

[00:31:52] Mike Mills: Yeah, I think the whole idea of being positive is there for sure.

[00:31:55] Ginger Bell: Yeah. On that move from From that thought process of manager into leader and what that looks like.

I remember, um, years ago I was a training director for a wholesale lender and they had an AE that had just been put into a regional director role. And he came to me and he said, what classes should I take? What, you know, what should I do to, to learn? Not management. And that's what I loved about, about leadership because we, we manage things, you know, we lead people.

And so I was blessed early on in my career to have an opportunity to work for Dale Carnegie and was a training consultant. And so I told him, take the leadership training for managers because that's the connect. It's the leadership training. And he did. And today he's done an amazing job. He's one of our authors.

And, uh, and so that's the thing. It's like, you know, you want to be a good leader. Start by identifying that you're a leader.

[00:33:07] Fobby Naghmi: I think we're going to come to the end of this episode, Mike. Are you okay with ending it?

[00:33:10] Mike Mills: Yeah, we're good, man. I think, uh, I think it's, uh, I'm excited for the release of the book. I think this is going to be, um, really impactful for a lot of people. And I think ultimately, like, it's a great thing that, again, there's so many different perspectives on how this can be done and, and.

You know, one of the things I get frustrated with sometimes when somebody, anybody talks about any kind of training, sales training, leadership training, management training, whatever it is, they all say, well, I've, I've heard that before. I know what it is. And it's like, you do know what it is, but you're not putting it into practice.

And the reason for that is because you have to be reminded. One of the, I think I put it in the book in my chapter is your brain is for having ideas. It is not for holding ideas. So these type of things you have to constantly remind yourself because it's not going to stay there if you don't put it in front of your face every day.

So yeah, you may know the themes in the book, but you don't understand what they are until you go through it over and over and remind yourself over and over again until it really sinks in.

[00:34:06] Fobby Naghmi: That's awesome man. So look, on behalf of the Texas Real Estate and Finance Podcast, we are outta here.

Go Mike, you're on.

[00:34:33] Mike Mills: So I had, uh, again in the, in the world, you can't make this up. So I, uh, early on in my career, I was doing a, uh, uh, refinance for a couple and, um, I had gone, uh, you know, cause back in those days, especially we do More so these, you go to closings, right? You show up, you want to make sure you get your face seen, all that kind of stuff.

So, so I'd been dealing primarily with the wife and the transaction, which is pretty typical in our world. You, you know, you talk to somebody as the primary contact and then someone else is kind of helping out or whatever. So we go to it, we sit down at the table, everything's kind of starting to get signed.

The husband comes in and he starts signing. And, um, as we all know, there's a, there's that alias stock, right? Here, here's your different names that you had. And, and, uh, we pull up, you know, the, the closer pulls up her. She's like, okay, you sign yours and you sign his. And his had like, you know, one little adjustment.

Cause it's always like, you know, the middle initials weird or whatever. Well, she actually had like three different names, like three different last names. And he looked over at her and he's like, why is your list so much longer than mine? And she's like, uh, well, um, I didn't, um, you could see her start getting really flustered.

And I look at the closer and she's looking at me and we're like, what's going on here? And he goes, why? You know, I don't remember the exact, it was like, who's Shelly Jones. And she's like, Well, you know, that that's I was married. I had a, I was married before this. And, and he's like, you, you were married before us.

And she's like, yes. He's like, you never told me they'd been married for like 15 years. He's like, you never told me. And he's like, no. And, and so me and the closer again. And then he's like, well, who's Shelly Williams? And he, she's like, Well, then I got to marry it again after that. We're sitting at a table and they're starting to argue.

And the closer and I are both like, you know what, we're going to step outside for just a little bit. You guys go ahead and have a conversation and we'll come back, you know, and figure out what we're going to do. So ultimately they closed the loan cause it was saving them money. It was a refire or whatever, and they had to do it, but they had never, I guess she had signed on, I don't know how they got to that point without knowing that.

But it was the most uncomfortable situation that I'd ever been in and sitting in a closing room face to face with this husband and wife and, you know, I felt so bad for her because she was just wrecked and he was mad and it was like, all right, I got to get out of here.